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Author Topic: Apples to apples?  (Read 1128 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Apples to apples?
« on: February 19, 2014, 11:24:54 pm »

Just curious-looking at your basic powered mixers for roughly the same money you can get a Peavey, Yamaha,or Behringer-but the Peavey and Yamaha's show roughly half the output power as the Behringers.  What gives?  Seems like the Behringers are overpowered for where his mixers are typically used anyway?

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Steve Swaffer

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 11:31:17 pm »

Just curious-looking at your basic powered mixers for roughly the same money you can get a Peavey, Yamaha,or Behringer-but the Peavey and Yamaha's show roughly half the output power as the Behringers.  What gives?  Seems like the Behringers are overpowered for where his mixers are typically used anyway?

Here us the specs page for a "3000 Watt" amplifier.  How can anyone really figure out what they need to know when the specs are so exaggerated. 
http://geminisound.com/product/xga-3000
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 01:26:54 am »

If the PA equipment business was as shady with dollar numbers as watt numbers they'd all be in gaol inside a week.

Watts AES, watts RMS, watts program, watts peak, watts PMPO?  A sliding scale of ways to measure and market.  And that's before you decide if the number was measured under optomistic conditions or just exagerated.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 07:37:07 am »

It all depends on how you calculate "watts".

Generally it is RMS reading of a sine wave voltage into a particular load impedance.

HOWEVER if you get "creative" you can "figure" using the peak of the voltage waveform instead of the RMS-and THEN you can double that to get the Peak to peak.

So a 20V RMS into an 8 ohm load is 50 watts real.

But if you use the calculation above you get 400 watts.

Then if you just "throw in" 6dB for a peak that who knows where it comes from (like some loudspeaker manufacturers do) you get 1600 watts out of a real 50 watt amp.

SEE-simple marketing-----------------------------

And if people are comparing its actual output to others in the same price range-they get the same result and nobody is the wiser-----------

And then they wonder why those "big amp companies" are trying to "rip them off".

I guess as long as you hook them up to speakers in the same price category-you will have a good "match".
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 07:45:59 am »

It all depends on how you calculate "watts".

Generally it is RMS reading of a sine wave voltage into a particular load impedance.

HOWEVER if you get "creative" you can "figure" using the peak of the voltage waveform instead of the RMS-and THEN you can double that to get the Peak to peak.

So a 20V RMS into an 8 ohm load is 50 watts real.

But if you use the calculation above you get 400 watts.

Then if you just "throw in" 6dB for a peak that who knows where it comes from (like some loudspeaker manufacturers do) you get 1600 watts out of a real 50 watt amp.

SEE-simple marketing-----------------------------

And if people are comparing its actual output to others in the same price range-they get the same result and nobody is the wiser-----------

And then they wonder why those "big amp companies" are trying to "rip them off".

I guess as long as you hook them up to speakers in the same price category-you will have a good "match".

Power your cheap speakers with a cheap amp and power your expensive speakers with an expensive amp and you'll be OK. LOL  :o
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:54:41 am by Jamin Lynch »
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 08:44:02 am »

Many (ok, many, many) years ago, I was at a local "electronic / electric superstore / clearance outlet" kind of place. They had a couple of 5 way behemoths that had just come in, with a big sign overhead saying proclaiming 2,000 watts. Didn't say each, or pair, whatever.
You know the kind.... 10 piezo's across the top......
I told the salesdude that I had a show that night, and if I could rent them.
He asked what amp I was going to use. EX-4000 I said.
He said "No, these only work with home amps, no pro gear"
Riiiight...  Not a lot of 1,000 watt home amps, where the owner is likely to shop at Addison for speakers.......
He did offer me a home-built Dynaco that would "really go good with these boxes"

Apples to apples... what a concept
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 08:49:58 am »

These are what I refer to as 'salesman's watts'.


Steve.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 10:00:01 am by Steve M Smith »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 09:17:14 am »

How about that. The Peavey is rated 1/2 the output of the "B" box. Those little Peavey heads are built like a brick shithouse, will last forever, and the specs are honest. Buy the Peavey.
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Sammy Barr

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 09:59:13 am »

We have a Several Peaveys, a yamaha and a behringer at the college where I work. The behringer is the weak link. It does not sound as good or have the output of the Peaveys regardless of specs. The Peavey would be my first choice followed closely by the Yamaha.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Apples to apples?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 10:02:49 am »

Those little Peavey heads are built like a brick shithouse

They certainly are.  We use an old XR600 and I have a couple of friends who 'upgraded' to the XR684 about fifteen years ago.  One is now back to using an XR600 and the other is using an XR500.


Steve.
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