ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?  (Read 2089 times)

Onlin Barna

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« on: February 19, 2014, 06:20:44 am »

Hello all,

I'm looking for subwoofer plans for Eighteensound 21LW1400 type speaker. I can see only one plan by the manufacturer, that is a bandpass design, which maybe not suitable for outdoor events (anyway, I would listen everybody's opinion about this...). Here is the official plan: http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal%20tervek/bass/band%20pass/pdf/18Sound%20Kit21.pdf

I need a relative easy to build plan, mostly for horns because of outdoor event, but if anybody has other good plans for this speaker, please tell me.

Thank you very much
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3427
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 01:21:21 pm »

Hello all,

I'm looking for subwoofer plans for Eighteensound 21LW1400 type speaker. I can see only one plan by the manufacturer, that is a bandpass design, which maybe not suitable for outdoor events (anyway, I would listen everybody's opinion about this...). Here is the official plan: http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal%20tervek/bass/band%20pass/pdf/18Sound%20Kit21.pdf

I need a relative easy to build plan, mostly for horns because of outdoor event, but if anybody has other good plans for this speaker, please tell me.

Thank you very much
You should not be looking for speaker plans for a particular driver-but rather looking at something (driver AND plans) that meets your needs.

FIRST you have to define your needs?  Do you need low freq or high output?

Does size matter?  How simple is simple?  What sort of wood working tools do you have?  What is your skill level with those tools?

What you are asking is along the lines of "I have a small block Chevy engine-does anybody know a good car to put it in?

Without more details there is no correct answer for YOUR needs.  Somebody may have something that works for them but not you.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 957
  • College Station, Texas
    • Weaver Imaging
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 02:43:59 pm »

Hello all,

I'm looking for subwoofer plans for Eighteensound 21LW1400 type speaker. I can see only one plan by the manufacturer, that is a bandpass design, which maybe not suitable for outdoor events (anyway, I would listen everybody's opinion about this...). Here is the official plan: http://wizardaudio.hu/hasznos/hangfal%20tervek/bass/band%20pass/pdf/18Sound%20Kit21.pdf

I need a relative easy to build plan, mostly for horns because of outdoor event, but if anybody has other good plans for this speaker, please tell me.

Thank you very much

I have a pair of these monster subs, but the box design got put on hold a while back, then I had a computer crash and lost all the data I had amassed on my design. I have a test box and was tuning the ports to find the sweet spot.

My design is going to be a "self powered" box. Basically I'm going to build a space to house an amp in the cabinet. These will be fairly tall so I can put a set of HPR153's on top as well.

What do you need the sub to do?
Logged
I'm not the sharpest loaf of bread in the elevator.

Onlin Barna

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 05:34:51 pm »

You should not be looking for speaker plans for a particular driver-but rather looking at something (driver AND plans) that meets your needs.

FIRST you have to define your needs?  Do you need low freq or high output?

Does size matter?  How simple is simple?  What sort of wood working tools do you have?  What is your skill level with those tools?

What you are asking is along the lines of "I have a small block Chevy engine-does anybody know a good car to put it in?

Without more details there is no correct answer for YOUR needs.  Somebody may have something that works for them but not you.

I want it more loud then deep, but as far as I know it would be a horn subwoofer, which I don't really like. (Can't it be both: deep and loud?  ;D ;D )

My friend has connection with a CNC machine but they don't have experience in speakers, by the way I would unsay the thing I said it should be simple  :)

First I would make one piece as "hobby" and later if my budget allows, I would build 3 more with which I can go for works too (indoor and small outdoor events, 1-200 ppl max)

Size is not a problem, I will put some handles and wheels on it.

Have you looked the plan I attached? Maybe bandpass is what I need? (indoor and outdoor too)
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3427
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 07:59:04 pm »

I want it more loud then deep, but as far as I know it would be a horn subwoofer, which I don't really like. (Can't it be both: deep and loud?  ;D ;D )


Sure subs can be loud and deep.  It depends on what you consider "loud" and "deep".

Why don't you like horns?  You can get the most SPL for the lowest cost that way.  IF designed right.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Onlin Barna

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 29
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 12:05:33 pm »

Sure subs can be loud and deep.  It depends on what you consider "loud" and "deep".

Why don't you like horns?  You can get the most SPL for the lowest cost that way.  IF designed right.

I don't like horns because which I heard (not one) I didn't like their sound. And also, it felt like they aren't really "punch in my stomach" enough. But maybe - probably - I have had experience with wrong built or just bad horn subwoofers.

If somebody makes me a good horn subwoofer (which maybe will have more then 100dB sensitivity?  :o :) ) It would be great. Manufacturer data: http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=196
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12819
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 12:03:18 pm »

I don't like horns because which I heard (not one) I didn't like their sound. And also, it felt like they aren't really "punch in my stomach" enough. But maybe - probably - I have had experience with wrong built or just bad horn subwoofers.

If somebody makes me a good horn subwoofer (which maybe will have more then 100dB sensitivity?  :o :) ) It would be great. Manufacturer data: http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=196

The "punch" in LF comes from mid-bass, not subwoofer frequencies.  Reflex loaded cabinets typically have much higher 2nd & 3rd harmonic distortion than horn loaded subs (often more distortion products that the fundamental frequency that generates them), and that distortion is often the punch that users identify.  My previous employer called distortion "free dB's" which, while they may be included at no extra cost, do not represent the signal being applied.

If you do not already own the 21" speaker in question, I'd suggest waiting until you find a design that either is "correct" or serves your uses, whichever is more important to you.

That said, size does not matter (other than to your spouse... ).  Competent designs exist for sub woofer systems that use a wide variety of loudspeaker sizes.  21" may give you bragging rights but if the sound sucks, does it matter?
Logged
Chewing through your wimpy dreams
They eat without a sound,
Digesting England by the pound.

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3427
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 12:39:25 pm »

I don't like horns because which I heard (not one) I didn't like their sound. And also, it felt like they aren't really "punch in my stomach" enough. But maybe - probably - I have had experience with wrong built or just bad horn subwoofers.

If somebody makes me a good horn subwoofer (which maybe will have more then 100dB sensitivity?  :o :) ) It would be great. Manufacturer data: http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=196
Then you have not been listening to properly designed horns or systems that have not been setup properly.

Generally the problem with horns is lack of deep bass-unless they are really large.

As a general rule-horns have much more "punch" than front loaded cabinets-because at the upper end of the response there is a lot of "horn loading" going on-which means those freq are going to "kickout" a good bit more.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12819
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 12:46:26 pm »

Then you have not been listening to properly designed horns or systems that have not been setup properly.

Generally the problem with horns is lack of deep bass-unless they are really large.

As a general rule-horns have much more "punch" than front loaded cabinets-because at the upper end of the response there is a lot of "horn loading" going on-which means those freq are going to "kickout" a good bit more.

I think you glossed over the distortion components of reflex loaded subs.  The 2nd & 3rd harmonics will be louder than the fundamental frequencies in the program material, especially when the rig is pushed (and most subs are pushed hard).  I know you know this, Ivan, and low distortion horn are part of what you guys do at Danley.  I've heard several comments about Danley subs that *complain* about the lack of distortion because the listeners are soooo accustomed to hearing it they believe it's really part of a designer's intentions, rather than an unfortunate artifact about which little can be done.
Logged
Chewing through your wimpy dreams
They eat without a sound,
Digesting England by the pound.

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3427
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Plans for this 21" 18sound speaker?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 01:15:00 pm »

I think you glossed over the distortion components of reflex loaded subs.  The 2nd & 3rd harmonics will be louder than the fundamental frequencies in the program material, especially when the rig is pushed (and most subs are pushed hard).  I know you know this, Ivan, and low distortion horn are part of what you guys do at Danley.  I've heard several comments about Danley subs that *complain* about the lack of distortion because the listeners are soooo accustomed to hearing it they believe it's really part of a designer's intentions, rather than an unfortunate artifact about which little can be done.
It is really funny to me when people say they want a system that is "accurate" and "reproduces the input signal", yet they think that systems that are distorted and far from flat response are somehow "right".

You CAN NOT have a system that is accurate and yet distorts/changes the signal at the same time.

Part of the problem is that people are so used to hearing systems that are not accurate-that they believe what they are hearing is "correct".

To me the PA system should be very linear and accurate.  You leave the "voicing of the sound" to the guitar amp speakers and such.  It should reproduce what goes in.

And there are many systems that "say" they do that-yet are far from it.

And for what it is worth-the loudspeaker is by far the worse reproducer of a signal than anything else in the chain.  And NO loudspeaker is truly accurate.  When a cone moves-it introduces distortion (not just harmonic but other "distortions" of the signal).

But we can try to get them as accurate as possible.  The more a cone "flops around" the more distorted it will be.  And that is why horns have such lower distortion-for a couple of reasons.

First they control the movement of the cone more-so it is "flopping around" less.

Second the horn adds gain to the signal-so for the same amount of "power" the horn is louder-which means to get the same loudness you don't have to turn it up as much-so there is less distortion.

And with most of the Danley full range cabinets, we have an "acoustic distortion reducer" on them.  That what the little holes in front of the woofer and mids do. 

They act as acoustic low pass filters-which reduce the distortion components in level-so the sound is clearer.

OF course a clearer sound is not always good.  You start to hear all the defects in the source.  But with a good source you hear things you didn't before-because there is less distortion to "get in the way".

I have had a number of people over the years say this "I want it to sound like me-just better".  So EXACTLY HOW am I supposed to do that????????????
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.155 seconds with 23 queries.