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Author Topic: Sound System Design Help  (Read 2892 times)

Brad Weber

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 09:11:53 am »

Convention usually dictates  separate L/R system deployment, but there is no reason for you to be tied to convention.
Your goal is loud, clear, efficient (one 20 amp circuit) and fast deployment, all of which scream single point deployment to me.

The few times I have had the opportunity to set up single point systems have been "ear openers".
I've been surprised how much people involved in drumline, drum and bugle corps, marching band, etc. performances seem very concerned with 'soundstage' and 'imaging' but don't seem to understand how difficult that is to achieve for large audience areas.  Jason's post helps clairfy that they may only be concerned with what certain listeners hear and don't really care what everyone else hears.  That is a completely different situation than trying to serve all the listeners.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2014, 09:34:34 am »

One thing I didn't see was what "instruments" are the majority users of the PA?


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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2014, 09:56:17 am »

One thing I didn't see was what "instruments" are the majority users of the PA?


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I'm trying to understand why drum lines need PA systems.
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Tim Perry

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2014, 10:44:29 am »

I'm trying to understand why drum lines need PA systems.

Not needed except for announcements and introduction and awards.

The local long running competition expressly forbid the use of PA systems.

http://www.drumsalongthemohawk.com/


« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 03:30:05 am by Tim Perry »
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Jason Porter

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2014, 12:42:28 pm »

Not needed except for announcements and induction and awards.

The local long running competition expressly forbid the use of PA systems.

http://www.drumsalongthemohawk.com/

10 years ago, this would've been a fair and valid statement. However, with where the activity has progressed to now, having a high quality soundstage is just as important as the instruments being used for the competition. There's not a single ensemble involved in the activity that doesn't have some sort of amplification as a part of their setup.

One thing I didn't see was what "instruments" are the majority users of the PA?


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The system I'm working one for this particular will have 10 marimba mics (5 total marimbas with 2 mics per instrument), 4 vibraphone mics, 2 synthesizers, a bass guitar, and electric acoustic guitar, and a Roland 404SX sampler.

I've been surprised how much people involved in drumline, drum and bugle corps, marching band, etc. performances seem very concerned with 'soundstage' and 'imaging' but don't seem to understand how difficult that is to achieve for large audience areas.  Jason's post helps clairfy that they may only be concerned with what certain listeners hear and don't really care what everyone else hears.  That is a completely different situation than trying to serve all the listeners.

As I mentioned above in this post, the "soundstage" is becoming a very important part of an ensembles performance, especially in the drum and bugle corps/marching band performances. For example, one system I saw last summer a drum and bugle corps ensemble using had 1 15" speaker on the 25 yard lines, the "main" stage stack consisting of dual 15" speakers over dual 18" subs on about the 35 yard lines, and dual 15" speakers setup vertically on about the 45 yard lines. All were on varying angles to ensure the sound was getting up to about the 400 level of Lucas Oil Stadium which is where the judges they're trying to appeal to are sitting. This setup set their "soundstage" from 25 yard line to 25 yard line and allowed them to use some awesome panning effects that in previous years would've been difficult to do. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, the people coming to support the ensembles understand that the farther you sit away from the center of the competition area (be it a football field or basketball court) the less clear the sound will be. But it comes with the territory of the activity.
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dick rees

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 01:05:06 pm »

One thousand words minus five:

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dick rees

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 01:16:20 pm »

Couldn't resist posting a pic.

What mystifies me is that why the addition of tech to what has for decades been an acoustic performance form is power limited to a single outlet.  Or perhaps the statement about available power is just vague or inadequate.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 01:47:27 pm »

Couldn't resist posting a pic.

What mystifies me is that why the addition of tech to what has for decades been an acoustic performance form is power limited to a single outlet.  Or perhaps the statement about available power is just vague or inadequate.

So the no-longer-a-drumline needs amplification for instruments that are antithetical.

I don't get it, whatever 'it' is.  Never mind....
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dick rees

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2014, 02:03:09 pm »


one system I saw last summer a drum and bugle corps ensemble using had 1 15" speaker on the 25 yard lines, the "main" stage stack consisting of dual 15" speakers over dual 18" subs on about the 35 yard lines, and dual 15" speakers setup vertically on about the 45 yard lines.

Well, I suppose you could run all that on a single circuit, but it would seem to me to be just enough to provide some kind of "effect" derived mainly from a bit of "apparent position shift" and of course the multiple time-arrivals.

If I were to judge such competitions, I'd give weight to the arrangement of the performance pieces according to how well and how creatively they used the natural stadium acoustics and echo/slap-back.  The better these natural phenomena are incorporated into the arrangement and performance, the higher I'd score them.

I recall  going  with my high school band director to a marching band seminar at Drake University in Des Moines back arond 1958.  One of the topics discussed was the creative use of slap-back to create intricate polyrhythms for the listeners. 

This realm of artistic endeavor required no AC circuits whatsoever.

OK.  Done with the rant...

To the OP:  whatever floats the boat.  There are a lot sillier things I could get worked up about...
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Jason Porter

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Re: Sound System Design Help
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2014, 02:16:22 pm »

Couldn't resist posting a pic.

What mystifies me is that why the addition of tech to what has for decades been an acoustic performance form is power limited to a single outlet.  Or perhaps the statement about available power is just vague or inadequate.

I am just as mystified about the power supply as you are. I honestly think it's got something to do with the host venues. Most of the competition hosts (at least for the indoor circuits) are held in high schools where the high voltage circuits to tie into are unavailable. There are several competitions in larger arenas, but they try to keep everything even across the board. So since the high schools can't provide high voltage circuits, neither can the arenas. True, the high schools could get industrial generators to provide the extra voltage, but that adds expense and for the host schools it would break the bank to rent that kind of power for the day. Since these events typically cost an audience member between $5 and $7 dollars there's not a huge profit margin and since the ensembles have been working with a single 120V power source for several years now, I don't see the governing organizations changing that anytime soon...unfortunately.
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