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Author Topic: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?  (Read 3932 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 02:05:52 pm »

Cool, then just quickly in my head it should couple pretty well up to the 600Hz area. Assuming a ballpark from the center of the horn? Would that be right? I really need the extra 300Hz to 100Hz so that would be okay...these things have no problem producing 1.5kHz and above with 22 tweeters.... and I am already taking a dip out around 600Hz.

Thank you guys for the help
Let's do a little math. 600Hz is 1.88' so 1/4 of that is less than 6".  Is that the spacing from the center of horn to center of horn?

Let's think about tweeters   Lets say 10Khz is your top freq .  That is 1.3"  Is that the center to center of the drivers?

As you go up it gets harder and the spacing has to be smaller.  It is NOT spacing between edge to edge-but rather center to center.

Also the 1/4 wavelength is a "guideline" not a hard and fast rule that it either works or doesn't on either side of that.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

George Dougherty

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2014, 09:13:57 am »

So it looks like you are suggesting adding a couple of cabinets rather than looking into different speakers?

I am just curious how much more output I will get from the woofers adding two more boxes and if it will be worth it.  Plus, I wonder since it would start to become a short line array if I will like the sound.  I can't recall ever hearing or mixing on any line array where I am like wow this is great.  Point source is where it's at.

Well, a cheap and easy test would be to stack them and see how it affects the sound.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2014, 06:43:02 pm »

Well, a cheap and easy test would be to stack them and see how it affects the sound.
And don't just listen in one area-move around-side to side-front to back.

Pink noise will help to revel the problems easier than music.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

George Dougherty

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2014, 09:02:53 pm »

And don't just listen in one area-move around-side to side-front to back.

Pink noise will help to revel the problems easier than music.
+1

I found the wider dispersion of the melded tweeter arrays left a high-mid gap when you got off axis on my OT12's since they don't cut in till up about 2k.  Switched to compression drivers and got much better results. Be interested to know how the DR 250 integrates off-axis.
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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2014, 04:51:34 pm »

Well, a cheap and easy test would be to stack them and see how it affects the sound.

True.  I could just stack them outside somewhere and do a mix from a live recording.  That will be a good way to decide.  If I don't like it, I can look at other options...

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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 04:07:30 pm »

And don't just listen in one area-move around-side to side-front to back.

Pink noise will help to revel the problems easier than music.

Ivan, how much amplifier power would you recommend to get the most out of an SM80? I would typically go with program power for live sound, but what do you recommend?
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Brad Weber

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 05:22:54 pm »

Hey guys! I do a lot of church outreach and typically run around 90dBA/105dBC. I like mixing with a lot of punchy low end and sufficient warmth. There are times when I need a little more than that though. So, an extra 5dB is nice there.
Your first post mentioned wanting to achieve sustained levels of 95dB at 60' but based on the above it seems that you may actually be wanting to support average levels of around 110dB at the listeners and if that's at 60' then that's equivalent to 135dB at 1m.  Add in 5-10dB for peaks and that seems to mean that you are looking for a maximum output levels of around 140-145dB at 1m.  Is that an accurate summary of your goals?
 
The SM80 is a nice box but 140-145dB is 6-11dB above it's rated maximum output and thus it seems that something like the SH-96HO might be more appropriate if you really want that kind of output level. 
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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 06:32:32 pm »

Your first post mentioned wanting to achieve sustained levels of 95dB at 60' but based on the above it seems that you may actually be wanting to support average levels of around 110dB at the listeners and if that's at 60' then that's equivalent to 135dB at 1m.  Add in 5-10dB for peaks and that seems to mean that you are looking for a maximum output levels of around 140-145dB at 1m.  Is that an accurate summary of your goals?
 
The SM80 is a nice box but 140-145dB is 6-11dB above it's rated maximum output and thus it seems that something like the SH-96HO might be more appropriate if you really want that kind of output level.

That would be nice if I could afford it. It looks like a couple SM80s with lots of sub support would do what I need considering 10dB peaks.
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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 02:44:00 am »

That would be nice if I could afford it. It looks like a couple SM80s with lots of sub support would do what I need considering 10dB peaks.

Actually I forgot about the sm100f. That may fit my needs a little better with the added low frequency response. Same output levels and same price if I remember right on the price.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2014, 09:17:27 am »

That would be nice if I could afford it. It looks like a couple SM80s with lots of sub support would do what I need considering 10dB peaks.
Actually I forgot about the sm100f. That may fit my needs a little better with the added low frequency response. Same output levels and same price if I remember right on the price.
If  you're thinking that two side-by-side SM80 or SM100F covering the same area would sum together to yield +6dB then you need to go back and read Ivan's earlier comments regarding 1/4 wavelength dimensions.  I believe the SM100F is 20.5" wide and the SM80 24" wide, which means two of them side-by-side would start to sum coherently only below 165Hz and 141Hz respectively.  Above those frequencies the two could provide maybe a 3dB overall increase in level while also resulting in some combfiltering.  Other than for subwoofers, to get greater output you're almost always better off with one box with more output than with multiple boxes.
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