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Author Topic: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?  (Read 18773 times)

David Hoover

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Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« on: February 17, 2014, 04:20:33 PM »

Ever since I upgraded my subwoofers, I have been unimpressed with the output on my speakers since the subwoofers easily outrun them.  I am very curious about the Danley SM80, but my only concern is will they lack the warmth needed for live bands outdoors?  Will they sound nicer with a sub right under them allowing the sub to take on the midbass region a little?  I really would like 95dB sustained at 60ft outdoors.  Or, would another design such as SM96 offer a better sound for me?

Let me know what information you would like about my setup.
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Jared Koopman

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2014, 05:10:05 PM »



Let me know what information you would like about my setup.

How about, what is your setup?
ANd who are you trying to impress?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 07:57:51 PM »

Ever since I upgraded my subwoofers, I have been unimpressed with the output on my speakers since the subwoofers easily outrun them.  I am very curious about the Danley SM80, but my only concern is will they lack the warmth needed for live bands outdoors?  Will they sound nicer with a sub right under them allowing the sub to take on the midbass region a little?  I really would like 95dB sustained at 60ft outdoors.  Or, would another design such as SM96 offer a better sound for me?

Let me know what information you would like about my setup.
We demo the Sm80 all the time with a sub with a lowpass around 90-100Hz.

The SM80-(because it is a sealed box not ported) has a slower rolloff than other cabinets and because subs are typically run at much higher levels than full range boxes, the midbass has not been an issue (that we are aware of) on any of the gigs it is being used on.

Yes the SM96 goes lower-but has less max output.

You say 95dB sustained.  Is that C or A weighting? 

If it is A weighted (A should not be used above 80dB-but we won't go there), and 60' is a 25dB loss then you have a"sustained output of 95dB-then that is 120dB at 1M.  Depending on the peak of the music it could be in the range of 10-20dB-so that gives and idea of 130-140dB needed.

If the 95dB is C weighted it gets a bit harder because the difference between A and C can be quite large-but typically 10-15dBish.  So that would push the max output requirement of the full range cabinet down a good bit.
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Ivan Beaver
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 08:55:50 PM »

Just one more thing about the sealed box aspect of the SM80.

Because it is a sealed box, the impedance down in "midbass" area is pretty high-which means that it is hard to overpower-heating wise since for a given voltage the actual heat is low in that area.

Also the excursion is low-again due to the sealed box-so it does not "flop around" like drivers that in ported cabinets.

So you can actually apply a decent amount of boost down low to lower the response without hurting the driver.

The reason for the sealed cabinet is to make integration easier with a sub and to help increase sensitivity of the cabinet.  And to keep the size small.
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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 11:32:06 AM »

We demo the Sm80 all the time with a sub with a lowpass around 90-100Hz.

The SM80-(because it is a sealed box not ported) has a slower rolloff than other cabinets and because subs are typically run at much higher levels than full range boxes, the midbass has not been an issue (that we are aware of) on any of the gigs it is being used on.

Yes the SM96 goes lower-but has less max output.

You say 95dB sustained.  Is that C or A weighting? 

If it is A weighted (A should not be used above 80dB-but we won't go there), and 60' is a 25dB loss then you have a"sustained output of 95dB-then that is 120dB at 1M.  Depending on the peak of the music it could be in the range of 10-20dB-so that gives and idea of 130-140dB needed.

If the 95dB is C weighted it gets a bit harder because the difference between A and C can be quite large-but typically 10-15dBish.  So that would push the max output requirement of the full range cabinet down a good bit.

Hey guys! I do a lot of church outreach and typically run around 90dBA/105dBC. I like mixing with a lot of punchy low end and sufficient warmth. There are times when I need a little more than that though. So, an extra 5dB is nice there. I have four large horn subs (Titan 39's very wide with Lab 12 drivers).  The subwoofers sound really good actually. I typically have around 10dB left on them when mixing a band.  The extra is nice for when I have a rap artist. A typical audience is usually 40 to 90 feet away and anywhere from 100 to 400 people.  I use two DR250's for mains. While great for the price (since I dont have much money) and being able to squeeze a good sound out, I would rather have something that is a joy to mix on that I am not pushing to the limits every time. Does this help? 80 degrees dispersion is probably just enough as well.

Sealed will cause less phase interference with the sub as well right? Since the phase doesn't flip at the ported frequency.
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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 02:17:01 PM »

How about, what is your setup?
ANd who are you trying to impress?

Right now for FOH I have:

Yamaha 01V
2 Crown XTI 2000
4 27" Lab 12 Titan 39
2 DR250's
MacBook Pro
Avid 003 Rack/Pro Tools 9 for recording
Microphones: Heil PR35, Audix VX5, CAD M179, Shure Beta 52, etc. etc. I do live mix downs sometimes and these mics lend themselves well to a live recording

A typical setup would be: drums, bass guitar, keyboard, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, percussion of some sort, and about two to three vocals with 4 wedges and two in ear monitors.  I am able to get a good sound from this setup.

Above I posted the kind of audience I would have.  Indoors I have to problems, but outdoors, I am lacking output capabilities on the speakers.  On the speakers, I have them high passed at 100Hz 24dB/Oct to try to get more output from them.  It cleaned up the mids for sure.  Probably due to the woofer not moving nearly as much.  They are supposed to be able to reproduce 80Hz, but start sloping down at 120Hz as seen on my analyzer.  70Hz 18dB/Oct lowpass slope on the subs and 100Hz 24dB/Oct highpass slope on the tops created a nice response to where there is not a gap in the 100Hz area, but gives a nice slope up on the subs under 80Hz or so.  The subs are so much more efficient than the speakers that a lot of time I end up turning the output down on the subs a few dB.

The only limitation I really have is that a lot of times I only have one 20 amp circuit for FOH and one for backline/monitors.  I have never had an issue with the two XTI2000 amps on one circuit.

I am curious about the new Danley designs because it looks like having great sound quality and output may not be out of the question for my budget.  That's why I have DIY speakers now. 
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George Dougherty

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 11:59:28 PM »

Right now for FOH I have:

Yamaha 01V
2 Crown XTI 2000
4 27" Lab 12 Titan 39
2 DR250's
MacBook Pro
Avid 003 Rack/Pro Tools 9 for recording
Microphones: Heil PR35, Audix VX5, CAD M179, Shure Beta 52, etc. etc. I do live mix downs sometimes and these mics lend themselves well to a live recording

A typical setup would be: drums, bass guitar, keyboard, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, percussion of some sort, and about two to three vocals with 4 wedges and two in ear monitors.  I am able to get a good sound from this setup.

Above I posted the kind of audience I would have.  Indoors I have to problems, but outdoors, I am lacking output capabilities on the speakers.  On the speakers, I have them high passed at 100Hz 24dB/Oct to try to get more output from them.  It cleaned up the mids for sure.  Probably due to the woofer not moving nearly as much.  They are supposed to be able to reproduce 80Hz, but start sloping down at 120Hz as seen on my analyzer.  70Hz 18dB/Oct lowpass slope on the subs and 100Hz 24dB/Oct highpass slope on the tops created a nice response to where there is not a gap in the 100Hz area, but gives a nice slope up on the subs under 80Hz or so.  The subs are so much more efficient than the speakers that a lot of time I end up turning the output down on the subs a few dB.

The only limitation I really have is that a lot of times I only have one 20 amp circuit for FOH and one for backline/monitors.  I have never had an issue with the two XTI2000 amps on one circuit.

I am curious about the new Danley designs because it looks like having great sound quality and output may not be out of the question for my budget.  That's why I have DIY speakers now.
By all reports, and some of my own experience with the OT12's, the BF designs do better with multiple boxes per side.  IIRC, it's because you're increasing the horn mouth area and the LF extension slightly along with the added output capability from the drivers and power handling.  I never run fewer than 2 OT12's per side because it's about as easy to set them up either way and the extra headroom is always nice.  The DR250 is about a match for the OT12 in output with a touch more low end extension.

That said, the Danley designs are great boxes and personally I've been very happy moving away from BF wedgehorns to a set of db Tech 12" coaxial wedges.  I think the BF designs really do best with the premium drivers (often non-eminence) and biamping to allow for proper processing of the HF and LF sections.
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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2014, 07:21:39 PM »

By all reports, and some of my own experience with the OT12's, the BF designs do better with multiple boxes per side.  IIRC, it's because you're increasing the horn mouth area and the LF extension slightly along with the added output capability from the drivers and power handling.  I never run fewer than 2 OT12's per side because it's about as easy to set them up either way and the extra headroom is always nice.  The DR250 is about a match for the OT12 in output with a touch more low end extension.

That said, the Danley designs are great boxes and personally I've been very happy moving away from BF wedgehorns to a set of db Tech 12" coaxial wedges.  I think the BF designs really do best with the premium drivers (often non-eminence) and biamping to allow for proper processing of the HF and LF sections.

So it looks like you are suggesting adding a couple of cabinets rather than looking into different speakers?

I am just curious how much more output I will get from the woofers adding two more boxes and if it will be worth it.  Plus, I wonder since it would start to become a short line array if I will like the sound.  I can't recall ever hearing or mixing on any line array where I am like wow this is great.  Point source is where it's at.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2014, 07:59:19 PM »

So it looks like you are suggesting adding a couple of cabinets rather than looking into different speakers?

I am just curious how much more output I will get from the woofers adding two more boxes and if it will be worth it.  Plus, I wonder since it would start to become a short line array if I will like the sound.  I can't recall ever hearing or mixing on any line array where I am like wow this is great.  Point source is where it's at.
It all depends on the freq.  Assuming the drivers are within 1/4 wavelength of the freq of interest-when you double the NUMBER of boxes and keep the same power going to each driver you will get a maximum of 6dB louder.

Adding 2 boxes to 2 boxes will gt you 6dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 4 will only get around 3dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 10 will barely be noticable.

Everything has to do with wavelength and spacing as to whether they will add or subtract.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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David Hoover

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Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 09:39:38 AM »

It all depends on the freq.  Assuming the drivers are within 1/4 wavelength of the freq of interest-when you double the NUMBER of boxes and keep the same power going to each driver you will get a maximum of 6dB louder.

Adding 2 boxes to 2 boxes will gt you 6dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 4 will only get around 3dB.  Adding 2 boxes to 10 will barely be noticable.

Everything has to do with wavelength and spacing as to whether they will add or subtract.

Cool, then just quickly in my head it should couple pretty well up to the 600Hz area. Assuming a ballpark from the center of the horn? Would that be right? I really need the extra 300Hz to 100Hz so that would be okay...these things have no problem producing 1.5kHz and above with 22 tweeters.... and I am already taking a dip out around 600Hz.

Thank you guys for the help
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Personal Rig that will Impress? Danley?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 09:39:38 AM »


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