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Author Topic: Ideal point source coverage pattern  (Read 10134 times)

Brian O'Shaughnessy

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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 12:10:38 PM »

Improvement in your expressed area of concern follows an ever steepening curve as far as the efficacy of $ : quality.  IMnshO, it really doesn't make much difference if the program is DJ.  Live sound is another story...

LOL oh shesh, ok I know DJ's get a bad rep. I hate to break it to you DJ's are just as much musicians and live performers as any blues guitar soloist out there. I work with turntabilists, dj's who play with instruments (drum kits, saxophones, guitars, etc), dj's who can rock CDJs/controllers and yes, unfortunately there is the occasional guy who just spits out top 40 tracks, but quality comes through regardless :)

I guess my question is how difficult is it to make a 60 degree pattern work by itself? I am personally preferred towards this option because it would allow a much more logical upgrade route, but at the same time for the year or 2 before that happens I would probably benefit from 90. How limiting is 60?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 12:13:02 PM by Brian O'Shaughnessy »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 12:35:41 PM »



I was talking to another speaker manufacture (Bassboss), they have switchable lenses for their high frequency driver. He said it could be either 30 degrees or 90 degrees with a simple swap. Is it really that easy??
Yes it is-if you "believe" it is and don't listen-or look at specs and so forth.

You are SUPPOSED to believe what manufacturers tell you-------------

HOWEVER THE TRUTH is a different story.

Lets look at the following and assume the size of the horn is the same (which to be "swapped out" it would have to be.

Lets say it has pattern control of 90° at 1000Hz.  At 45° the pattern control would be down to 2000 Hz.  At 22° it would be down to 4000Hz.  So the 30° would be around 3000Hz.

Not quite the same control or freq response at different seats.

Also the length of the horn is going to change-which "should" mean a crossover value change-if you care about things like freq response and phase response.

But sure-go ahead and put whatever pattern you want on it and "believe" something actually happening----------------------

It is only that simple if you want it to be----Just sayin'------------------
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Len Zenith Jr

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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 11:09:53 PM »

Brian, I'll leave the coverage questions you have to the real professionals, however I'll give you my subjective experience using PK gear. I manage a modest sized (340 capacity) club where we have an installed JBL SRX system. We do small weekly DJ shows on the JBL system and full out monthly touring DJ shows using a brought in PK system. We have used both the CX line and the Klarity line for our monthly shows.

As far as the top boxes are concerned, I prefer the sound of the JBL SRX's over both of PK's offering (cx and klarity). There seemed to be a lack of mids in the PK boxes. This observation seems to be consistent with reviews of other PK systems on tour. To be fair, the house system has had more tuning done to it as the PK system is usually tweaked on the fly by DJ's and promoters throughout the night.  Although PK's CX line is very well made, the lack of pole mounts drove me crazy. As PK usually custom makes cabinets to order, I'm sure they could configure the boxes to your needs.

Now on to the bass. There is no contest here. PK CX-800's are the real deal designed for EDM promoters by EDM promoters. Never have I heard anything so deep and powerful and effortless in a compact pa system. We run about 127 dB @ 50hz center of dancefloor and my kidneys shutter on every hit, yet clean enough to hold a conversation with someone next to you. When I look at our SRX 728's I now see tinkertoys. The SRX's are great boxes but they can't keep up at ~30hz like the CX's can. FWIW we measured the PK Klarity subs 2 dB louder than the CX's at 50hz, although at 30hz the CX's win out, that 19mm x-max is meant for EDM music.

Now on to the business side of our shows. With the amount of crap systems out there and promoters not knowing the sound side of things, having the PK brand on your event that EDM enthusiasts recognize sells tickets. People will drive in from out of town to hear a PK system because "Bassnector, Skrillex, etc" uses it. It is such a draw in the EDM scene in Canada that PK has to protect their logo from unscrupulous promoters using their logo on their posters without owning any of their gear. Even if you find and use better gear and achieve better sound, consider the types of shows you do and whether or not gear snobbery of your intended paying customer is at play.
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Brian O'Shaughnessy

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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2014, 08:49:02 AM »

Len, thanks for all input! It seems like you have a lot of experience that is really relevant to my situation. I too am looking for a PA that can do modest sized show as you describe. Though I do have a strong passion for DJ's and music that lends itself well to rock solid bass. But I definitely need to acknowledge bands with a more folksier sound that really rely on good mid and high reproduction. It sounds like your venue does a variety of shows. If had to pick one system to run with, what would you do?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2014, 10:01:17 AM »


 the system is usually tweaked on the fly by DJ's and promoters throughout the night. 
THERE is your problem----------------------------------------------

Just sayin'----------------
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 10:20:07 AM »

I was talking to another speaker manufacture (Bassboss), they have switchable lenses for their high frequency driver. He said it could be either 30 degrees or 90 degrees with a simple swap. Is it really that easy?? I want to talk to PK and see if they have a similar option. Which actually brings up another question but I'll wait a bit on that...
Even assuming the lens did actually change the high frequency horn from 90 degrees to 30 degrees, that would only affect frequencies that were reproduced solely by the high frequency horn.  Below crossover would still be the same and who knows what would be happening through crossover.  And keep in mind that "crossover" is not a single frequency, both the low frequency and high frequency drivers are outputting sound to various degrees over some frequency range above and below the actual crossover frequency.  Thus the difference in pattern from the lens would only fully apply starting at some frequency above the nominal crossover frequency, a frequency which is likely well above much of the vocal and instrumental range.
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Re: Ideal point source coverage pattern
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 10:20:07 AM »


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