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Author Topic: QU-16 users with an AR2412?  (Read 9371 times)

gary makovsky

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QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« on: February 10, 2014, 10:17:26 AM »

Any Qu-16 users out there with an AR2412? Was considering an AR2412 purchase and was wondering if phantom power can be enabled to the ST1, 2 and 3 pairs which would be channel 17-18, 19-20, 21-22 on the stage box. Would be benificial for stereo overheads without eating up 2 channels on main layer.  A&H QU forum keeps kicking me out and resetting my username and password.

Thanks,
G
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 10:21:56 AM »

Any Qu-16 users out there with an AR2412? Was considering an AR2412 purchase and was wondering if phantom power can be enabled to the ST1, 2 and 3 pairs which would be channel 17-18, 19-20, 21-22 on the stage box. Would be benificial for stereo overheads without eating up 2 channels on main layer.  A&H QU forum keeps kicking me out and resetting my username and password.

Thanks,
G

Gary...

The simple answer is likely this:

If the touch screen control for those channels has an icon which will enable phantom, then you're good to go.  If it doesn't (which I would presume, not having my console with me at coffee) then you'll have to provide phantom with a power module at the kit or wherever.  I happen to have 4 channels worth kicking around in my gear case, so no problem for me.
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 10:36:12 AM »

Gary...

The simple answer is likely this:

If the touch screen control for those channels has an icon which will enable phantom, then you're good to go.  If it doesn't (which I would presume, not having my console with me at coffee) then you'll have to provide phantom with a power module at the kit or wherever.  I happen to have 4 channels worth kicking around in my gear case, so no problem for me.

Without an AR2412 connected, the touch screen does not show the 48V button. Was wondering if the software would know when connected to the stage box and enable the phantom option. Trying to find one locally (Pittsburgh) to try out first.  Maybe I'll just find out if and whenever it arrives. 

Thanks
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 11:04:57 AM »

Without an AR2412 connected, the touch screen does not show the 48V button. Was wondering if the software would know when connected to the stage box and enable the phantom option. Trying to find one locally (Pittsburgh) to try out first.  Maybe I'll just find out if and whenever it arrives. 

Thanks

I've hooked up to a 2412 just to test connectivity.  It does not make anything magically appear that is not there in the first place.  The only scenario I see working "out of the box" is if there is a manual 48v switch on the 2412 and I don't remember seeing one...plus it would seem a very unlikely engineering tack to take for A&H or any other designers.

I'd use them for line inputs and use regular channels for your OH's or use dynamics for OH's and accept the fact that it is what it is.  Or as I said the first time, get a 2 channel phantom supply and put it on stage.
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2014, 11:28:49 AM »

I've hooked up to a 2412 just to test connectivity.  It does not make anything magically appear that is not there in the first place.  The only scenario I see working "out of the box" is if there is a manual 48v switch on the 2412 and I don't remember seeing one...plus it would seem a very unlikely engineering tack to take for A&H or any other designers.

I'd use them for line inputs and use regular channels for your OH's or use dynamics for OH's and accept the fact that it is what it is.  Or as I said the first time, get a 2 channel phantom supply and put it on stage.

Thanks Dick, it looks like its possible,and can make it work if I have to with a separate supply.
I just got a response for A&H sales:

" Hi Gary,
Phantom power is indeed available on channels 17/18. Keep in mind, however, that these 2 channels are permanently "ganged" to 1 fader as a stereo channel, so all adjustments, including gain control, will affect both microphones, and they will be permanently hard-panned full left and full right.
Cheers,
Ryan L
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 11:41:44 AM »

Thanks Dick, it looks like its possible,and can make it work if I have to with a separate supply.
I just got a response for A&H sales:

" Hi Gary,
Phantom power is indeed available on channels 17/18. Keep in mind, however, that these 2 channels are permanently "ganged" to 1 fader as a stereo channel, so all adjustments, including gain control, will affect both microphones, and they will be permanently hard-panned full left and full right.
Cheers,
Ryan L
--
ams.support"

Cool.  I hadn't set up my board to check.  But now I wonder why 17/18 and not 19/20????

I'm pulling the board out to fool around and check...

Edit:

Did they say where the phantom enable "switch" for those channels is/will be located???  There's no icon on the St1/St2 channel screens on the board (just checked), so does phantom enable show up on the DSnake screen????

I don't have a 2412 here to check.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 11:48:49 AM by dick rees »
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Mark Rombouts

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U
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 01:26:23 PM »

Phantom power is a function of the pre-amp en not of the corresponding channel.

If you want to test this, you can patch one of the local Mic inputs of the QU-16 to this channel. If you get the button then, it also will be there with the AR2412.
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 01:31:00 PM »

Cool.  I hadn't set up my board to check.  But now I wonder why 17/18 and not 19/20????

I'm pulling the board out to fool around and check...

Edit:

Did they say where the phantom enable "switch" for those channels is/will be located???  There's no icon on the St1/St2 channel screens on the board (just checked), so does phantom enable show up on the DSnake screen????

I don't have a 2412 here to check.

Confirmed. The 48V button will show up on the touch screen once the AR2412 is enabled and patched to all the channels. A feature that will help me decide on the purchase. 

Thanks all
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gary makovsky

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Re: U
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 01:33:07 PM »

Phantom power is a function of the pre-amp en not of the corresponding channel.

If you want to test this, you can patch one of the local Mic inputs of the QU-16 to this channel. If you get the button then, it also will be there with the AR2412.

I dont have one yet as to why I posed the question for those out there who do.  Trying to justify my purchase.
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2014, 01:58:15 PM »

Confirmed. The 48V button will show up on the touch screen once the AR2412 is enabled and patched to all the channels. A feature that will help me decide on the purchase. 

Thanks all

OK.  I found it.  You don't need the 2412 connected to get the 48v icon on the touch screen, simply go to the second layer, select ST1 and use the Fn button at the lower left of the screen to select "source".  If you then choose "dSnake/select all" as your source, you'll get 48v confirmed available on ALL THREE STEREO INPUTS.

Whoop....
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 02:09:23 PM »

OK.  I found it.  You don't need the 2412 connected to get the 48v icon on the touch screen, simply go to the second layer, select ST1 and use the Fn button at the lower left of the screen to select "source".  If you then choose "dSnake/select all" as your source, you'll get 48v confirmed available on ALL THREE STEREO INPUTS.

Whoop....

Very cool, You all rock...
Thank you once again.  now to part with some benjamins...
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2014, 12:36:40 PM »

a question posed on the A&H forum was "can I plug in a Y cable to the AR stage box to get a mono channel since they are fixed hard panned?
Not too off topic but may be helpful to others here with this solution as well:

"Gave the Y cable some thought to get 48V to a condenser to fake a mono channel to stereo... It should work but once you think about the two pull up resistors to get 48V to the mic, You would be putting them in parallel thus decreasing the impedance in half possibly applying too much current to the mic??? may or may not damage the mic but will def cause impedance issues with the 48V supply.  What separates the 48V DC to the first gain stage is some small caps like .1 to do DC filtering. 

FIX: take you standard XLR Y cable and add two .1 caps to the + and - pins 2 and 3  in series (inline) to one of the splits going to the stage box. This will prevent the two 48V DC from being connected. Since 48V will be applied to both ins- ch 17 and 18 it wouldnt matter which XLR end with the dc blocking caps gets plugged in to 17 or 18."

Once again thanks to all for great help.

G Lee
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2014, 01:00:42 PM »

a question posed on the A&H forum was "can I plug in a Y cable to the AR stage box to get a mono channel since they are fixed hard panned?
Not too off topic but may be helpful to others here with this solution as well:

"Gave the Y cable some thought to get 48V to a condenser to fake a mono channel to stereo... It should work but once you think about the two pull up resistors to get 48V to the mic, You would be putting them in parallel thus decreasing the impedance in half possibly applying too much current to the mic??? may or may not damage the mic but will def cause impedance issues with the 48V supply.  What separates the 48V DC to the first gain stage is some small caps like .1 to do DC filtering. 

FIX: take you standard XLR Y cable and add two .1 caps to the + and - pins 2 and 3  in series (inline) to one of the splits going to the stage box. This will prevent the two 48V DC from being connected. Since 48V will be applied to both ins- ch 17 and 18 it wouldnt matter which XLR end with the dc blocking caps gets plugged in to 17 or 18."

Once again thanks to all for great help.

G Lee

What's the point, other than being able to do it?  I fail to understand the utility.  If you need something to be mono, then use a mono channel.  For me the point is pretty much moot.

This trips one of my sore spots. If I need more channels, I bring a larger mixer.   
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2014, 01:15:39 PM »

What's the point, other than being able to do it?  I fail to understand the utility.  If you need something to be mono, then use a mono channel.  For me the point is pretty much moot.

This trips one of my sore spots. If I need more channels, I bring a larger mixer.   

I agree totally, for what i'm doing like others, 16 channels is plenty but for that rare occasion you still have the ability to do 19 channels. Not all of us have access to larger boards or options.  Just giving others out there some ability just in case the occasion arises. once I get the AR I think i'll make up some Y cables to just keep in the trunk.
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 01:17:27 PM »

I agree totally, for what i'm doing like others, 16 channels is plenty but for that rare occasion you still have the ability to do 19 channels. Not all of us have access to larger boards or options.  Just giving others out there some ability just in case the occasion arises. once I get the AR I think i'll make up some Y cables to just keep in the trunk.

I think I'd just put a stereo source on those channels, like a keyboard submix.  It may mess up a pretty input layout but you won't need Y cables or be worried about the phantom power resistors.
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gary makovsky

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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2014, 01:24:57 PM »

I think I'd just put a stereo source on those channels, like a keyboard submix.  It may mess up a pretty input layout but you won't need Y cables or be worried about the phantom power resistors.

Exactly what I do, I got Keys on ST2 and drum samples on ST3.  My original thought was also move drum overheads to ST1 and free up two channels on the first layer just in case... the option is there if I need it and once I get the AR I know now I can still do it. I was just trying to address, if needed, you can still make the ST1 ins a mono channel.
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 01:31:01 PM »

I think I'd just put a stereo source on those channels, like a keyboard submix.  It may mess up a pretty input layout but you won't need Y cables or be worried about the phantom power resistors.

Dear A&H...

I am sending you the AR2412 I just purchased for warranty repair.  I made a custom input cable for it and now it doesn't work right.  Please fix it for me.

Don Quixote

PS 

I think I grabbed the wrong cable from the box...
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Re: QU-16 users with an AR2412?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 01:31:01 PM »


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