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Author Topic: Proposal for a new figure of merit for subs - Output Density  (Read 1371 times)

drew gandy

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Re: Proposal for a new figure of merit for subs - Output Density
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 02:50:34 am »

The truly sad thing to me-is that with a large number of products that are coming out (from the big guys) there is little to NO data.  Not even simple spec numbers.

To be fair.... there are a number of new products on the market (including Danley) that are "different" enough and certainly more complex than the older solutions that they are aiming to replace that giving useful metrics to the user is easier said than done.  This is especially true if a "laboratory" measurement doesn't actually spec out any better than the older technology it replaces.  There are many improvements (that have a meaningful design rationale behind them) that are lacking modern metrics by which to measure them.  And some things are just beyond the capability of most human minds to comprehend in a useful manner.  But this is a different issue than just inflating numbers or using a spec that can somehow be justified (perhaps in the fine print) but is not reasonable for describing the device. 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Proposal for a new figure of merit for subs - Output Density
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 07:00:02 am »

To be fair.... there are a number of new products on the market (including Danley) that are "different" enough and certainly more complex than the older solutions that they are aiming to replace that giving useful metrics to the user is easier said than done.  This is especially true if a "laboratory" measurement doesn't actually spec out any better than the older technology it replaces.  There are many improvements (that have a meaningful design rationale behind them) that are lacking modern metrics by which to measure them.  And some things are just beyond the capability of most human minds to comprehend in a useful manner.  But this is a different issue than just inflating numbers or using a spec that can somehow be justified (perhaps in the fine print) but is not reasonable for describing the device.
Agreed-but there are also a lot of normal products from major manufacturers that have no data other than size and weight.

What is so "different or special" about a 2x18" cabinet?  SURELY some basic numbers (power for example) could be supplied.

But as long as you trust and believe I guess it is OK.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

TrevorMilburn

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Re: Proposal for a new figure of merit for subs - Output Density
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2014, 07:43:18 am »

But I wonder how many manufacturers would actually send in speakers to be measured-even if it was free.
Back in the days (1974-91) in the UK (and later the USA) there was a magazine called International Musician in which acoustician and engineer Ken Dibble ran proper tests on pro drivers but apparently 'there was much annoyance when he demonstrated the phoney manufacturers specs'. This was possibly the first time someone had called the manufacturers bluff and risked losing advertising. Notice how there are no reviewers actually measuring pro kit nowadays.

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Brad Weber

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Re: Proposal for a new figure of merit for subs - Output Density
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2014, 12:40:24 pm »

As for the problem of stretching the truth on spec sheets, it's not really a technology problem at all... it's a human nature problem. I can't see any real solution outside of either making new laws, or having an industry-funded independent organization to do testing. The latter option seems more viable to me.
Even if you had one or more independent, industry funded testing organizations, what would prevent a manufacturer from doing their own testing or publishing whatever results they wanted?  Some of the existing independent testing providers have tried implementing other test procedures and 'verified' results but it is still up to the manufacturers as to what they decide to publish and any results that do not benefit the manufacturers are unlikely to be published.
 
It seems to come down to simple business, few manufacturers are going to publish data that makes their products appear less capable compared to the competition even if they know that it is more accurate.  Only manufacturers selling primarily to people who will understand the differences in the data provided can probably afford to publish more accurate data regardless of how it compares to their potential competition.
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