ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: budget piano microphones  (Read 9684 times)

Mike Tinsley

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
budget piano microphones
« on: January 30, 2014, 12:14:51 PM »

Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.
Logged

Bradford "BJ" James

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 12:23:04 PM »

Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.

I just brought a APEX 185 2 pack to try on Grand Piano at a recent gig. They sounded good enough that I didn't bother putting up anything better. Real good value at around $100 for the pair.
Logged
Proud Canadian dealer for Danley Sound Labs, A&H, Yamaha, QSC, Yorkville and more.

Mike Tinsley

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 03:05:50 PM »

I just brought a APEX 185 2 pack to try on Grand Piano at a recent gig. They sounded good enough that I didn't bother putting up anything better. Real good value at around $100 for the pair.

Thanks BJ. since i'm placing one each over the base end of the soundboard for bass frequencies and one at the upper end for treble, did you get full response and dynamics in the mix?
 
Logged

Mike Tinsley

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 04:37:23 PM »

Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.

Also- would the  Rode NT1A- altho a vocal mic by design,
be applicable for piano?
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 05:49:15 PM »

Hello. Mike Tinsley here.
Couldn't find another post to answer this,
so please redirect...
Looking for couple of affordable mics
for upper/ lower range grand (Kawai 5') piano
for quartet live sound sm to med rooms.
I realize this is no place to cut corners
but the good mics (C414, OM1, U87,NT55) are
pricey considering I need two and just purchased
a dig. board. Know nothing in this arena.
Sterling ST51, Oktava MK 319, various XLM's
locally available but seem to be geared for vocals.
Anyone selling thru PSW optimal. please direct. thanks. M.

Hi, Mike...

Do a search for "grand piano" and you'll get more information quicker. 

IMO, positioning is more important than the actual mic choice (there are so many good ones), not only for what and how the sound is picked up but equally important...what is NOT picked up.

No matter what mics are on the strings, I always put a "57 in the hole" to fulfill the principle of "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".  An SM57 pointed directly into one of the holes in the lyre of the grand will give you a ton of usable sound with almost ZERO bleed.  It'll also let you put the piano in the monitor if needed without fouling things up and feeding back.

Using a carefully balanced blend of a couple of properly placed SDC's backed by the 57 in the hole will give you a very nice palette of sound from which to work.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Mike Tinsley

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 06:36:24 PM »

Hi, Mike...

Do a search for "grand piano" and you'll get more information quicker. 

IMO, positioning is more important than the actual mic choice (there are so many good ones), not only for what and how the sound is picked up but equally important...what is NOT picked up.

No matter what mics are on the strings, I always put a "57 in the hole" to fulfill the principle of "better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".  An SM57 pointed directly into one of the holes in the lyre of the grand will give you a ton of usable sound with almost ZERO bleed.  It'll also let you put the piano in the monitor if needed without fouling things up and feeding back.

Using a carefully balanced blend of a couple of properly placed SDC's backed by the 57 in the hole will give you a very nice palette of sound from which to work.

Thanks DR.
Didn't want to assume a 57 was the ultimate band aid especially
if this guy's used to hi end NY sound types. Did my first show for
them and used a (muffling motion over the mouth) couple of
Audix D12/ D10 placed over lo/ hi string registers. Fortunately
he (award winning NY concert pianist) din pay any attention
to them and several people raved about the piano/ overall mix
which I wrote off to blind luck and resigned myself to do it right
the next time in May after being told I am THE contracted a/v
provider for all subsequent bookings- two so far.
Since you chimed in and have the expertise: SDC's- suggestions?
Previously mentioned Apex 185's? Stagg PGT60's? BluePerception220?
Sterling Audio ST51? Or order/ wait forever for LineAudio OM1&C3?
Logged

Brian Adams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
    • Adams Production Services
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 06:50:14 PM »

I use two Crown PCC160's, one gaff taped to the lid on the low side aimed across the low strings and one taped to the curve facing down and a little toward the hammers. Placement is critical, of course, and it takes a little midrange EQ, but I can get a really natural piano sound out of them.

This only works with the lid closed, obviously.

PCC160's can be found used but in perfect condition for under $100 each on ebay.
Logged
Brian Adams
Adams Production Services
Vermillion, SD
adamsproductionservices.com

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 07:16:30 PM »


Since you chimed in and have the expertise: SDC's- suggestions?


Not for cheap.  Shure KSM141

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=Shure+KSM141&Go=Search
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Cailen Waddell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1428
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2014, 08:29:20 PM »

We use a pair of akg c430s, which are IMHO reasonably priced.  They sit on a piece of foam in the crook of the piano doing an XY stereo thing.  It sounds nice to me, another sound guy who is our primary engineer came up with it.
Logged

Darin Ulmer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 09:57:11 PM »

+1 on the KSM141.  A very nice mic.
Logged

Jared Koopman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 274
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 12:58:51 PM »

Ive had good success with the AT-Pro37.
Logged

Bradford "BJ" James

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 01:59:55 PM »

Thanks BJ. since i'm placing one each over the base end of the soundboard for bass frequencies and one at the upper end for treble, did you get full response and dynamics in the mix?
 
I was happy with the sound. I used one high and one low and was able to get a nice balanced tone. Struggled a bit getting enough low end at first, but that was probably more due to placement then the mic. Good rejection of feedback too. Overall great value. Will be trying one on acoustic guitar shortly.
Logged
Proud Canadian dealer for Danley Sound Labs, A&H, Yamaha, QSC, Yorkville and more.

Mike Tinsley

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 24
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 12:04:27 AM »

well after much research/ consternation I'm just going to bite the bullet
and pick up a C414. Not sure XLS/ XLII etc but seems to be the go to ldc
best suited for the job. Then a sdc pencil for the hi end. Have to look thru
Marketplace. tks all. 
Logged

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 12:55:29 AM »

I would seriously consider a pair of audio technical ATM 450 ( a small diaphragm side address condenser) as a budget rig.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Logged
Jay Barracato

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2014, 08:52:26 AM »

well after much research/ consternation I'm just going to bite the bullet
and pick up a C414. Not sure XLS/ XLII etc but seems to be the go to ldc
best suited for the job. Then a sdc pencil for the hi end. Have to look thru
Marketplace. tks all.

While the C414 has a generally good reputation, and for the price I have them quite far down on my list sound-wise.  If you're going to spend that much money, get yourself a matched set of good SDC's.  Earlier I recommended the KSM141 which I consider as good or better than the 414...and you can get a pair for the cost of the AKG.

In the long run I'd recommend purchasing a matched pair over a single mic.  The flexibility and utility inherent in pairs over singles will be much better use of your funds.  Like you, I chose LDC's in the beginning, but experience has taught me that for working with grand piano in ensembles, LDC's are not the best choice.

Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23736
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2014, 01:31:02 PM »

While the C414 has a generally good reputation, and for the price I have them quite far down on my list sound-wise.  If you're going to spend that much money, get yourself a matched set of good SDC's.  Earlier I recommended the KSM141 which I consider as good or better than the 414...and you can get a pair for the cost of the AKG.

In the long run I'd recommend purchasing a matched pair over a single mic.  The flexibility and utility inherent in pairs over singles will be much better use of your funds.  Like you, I chose LDC's in the beginning, but experience has taught me that for working with grand piano in ensembles, LDC's are not the best choice.

Mike, you might not believe in Peter Pan... but I suggest you believe Mr Rees.  A matched pair of SDCs will benefit you more, both in the piano and for other uses.
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2014, 01:48:21 PM »

Mike, you might not believe in Peter Pan... but I suggest you believe Mr Rees.  A matched pair of SDCs will benefit you more, both in the piano and for other uses.

Mike...

You should buy whatever you decide upon from Tim.  He's a very smart guy... ;D
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23736
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2014, 02:37:45 PM »

Mike...

You should buy whatever you decide upon from Tim.  He's a very smart guy... ;D

The only thing I sell is my time.  Somehow that's still legal in Kansas so long as none of the parties are gratified by the experience. 

Lenny Bruce had a joke (c. 1963) about a Shriner attending a convention in New York.  He told the bellman "get me a $100 whore".  The bellmen sent a writer.

And you of all people should know that Microphone Accumulation Syndrome (a subset of Gear Acquisition Syndrome) is an "acquire-only" problem. ;)
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Tim Padrick

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 927
  • Indianapolis
    • T.P. Audio
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2014, 10:56:04 PM »

AT Pro37 - works on almost anything.
Logged

Sammy Barr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 102
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2014, 08:19:41 AM »

Plus one on the pro 37.
Logged

Bradford "BJ" James

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 446
Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2014, 01:53:37 PM »

Plus one on the pro 37.
+2  .... very versatile mic.
Logged
Proud Canadian dealer for Danley Sound Labs, A&H, Yamaha, QSC, Yorkville and more.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: budget piano microphones
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2014, 01:53:37 PM »


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 24 queries.