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Author Topic: QSC touchmix  (Read 34328 times)

Steve Garris

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2014, 01:35:56 PM »

It will have a hard time competing with this:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X18.aspx
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Brad Weber

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2014, 02:04:02 PM »

Think of the small screen as the Mackie but usable without an iPad, and better with. You could mix on it in a pinch, but they're betting that since just about everyone on the planet owns an iPad (with another 25 million sold last quarter) you'll have a larger surface or 2 surfaces - use the iPad for faders and the QSC for EQ/dynamics, etc.
7" diagonal versus 9.7" diagonal touchscreen and I know plenty of people who do not and have no care to own an iPad.  Not to mention that if you have to have the mixer and a separate iPad at FOH then the compact size factor goes down significantly while the risk of a lost, damaged or stolen iPad goes way up in many possible applications. We'll have to wait and see all the screens on the actual unit to know how well the user interface works with just the 7" touchscreen.
 
Definitely won't be for a lot of the people here, but I can see them selling a ton of these at the prices mentioned, given how well the Mackie iPad mixer is selling. With buttons like "Simple" and "Wizard," QSC knows who their target market is - and for this item it's definitely not people with 16, 24 or 48 channel snakes... I like the fact that they knew their target market, built features that would appeal to them, left out others, and priced it accordingly. They'll sell a shitload. If I were Presonus, I'd be even more nervous, with this now at the lower end and the QU-16 at the comparable price.
With 16 mic/line inputs, 2 stereo inputs, 6 mono aux outputs, 2 stereo aux outputs and stereo main outputs I'm not sure why the TouchMix-16 would not commonly be used with a 16x8 or even up to a 20x12 snake regardless of the technical expertise of the user.
 
My concern is that I see the price, focus on less technical users, etc. making the TouchMix very attractive to many churches, community theatres, schools, etc. where the people involved in the purchasing decisions may not be that technical or understand the compromises and tradeoffs that may be relevant to those applications.  It also seems odd that a device aimed at less technical users does not appear to have direct access from the front panel or main screens to scene recall and save, I can see recalling a saved base scene being the first step for many applications.
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Ned Ward

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2014, 02:52:28 PM »

7" diagonal versus 9.7" diagonal touchscreen and I know plenty of people who do not and have no care to own an iPad.  Not to mention that if you have to have the mixer and a separate iPad at FOH then the compact size factor goes down significantly while the risk of a lost, damaged or stolen iPad goes way up in many possible applications. We'll have to wait and see all the screens on the actual unit to know how well the user interface works with just the 7" touchscreen.
regardless of your thoughts, the iPad is the dominant player in the category and makes the most sense to develop for given the user numbers.

Quote
With 16 mic/line inputs, 2 stereo inputs, 6 mono aux outputs, 2 stereo aux outputs and stereo main outputs I'm not sure why the TouchMix-16 would not commonly be used with a 16x8 or even up to a 20x12 snake regardless of the technical expertise of the user.

My point was more that the concern of a 16+ channel snake and top mounts are valid, but not a concern for QSC as the market they're going after with this mixer generally don't own or think of buying a multi channel snake. They'll have a bunch of XLR cables, etc. Nothing wrong with using it with a snake and will work fine, but the consumer QSC designed this for doesn't own a snake, unless it's a Hosa 1/4" patch snake...
 
Quote
My concern is that I see the price, focus on less technical users, etc. making the TouchMix very attractive to many churches, community theatres, schools, etc. where the people involved in the purchasing decisions may not be that technical or understand the compromises and tradeoffs that may be relevant to those applications.  It also seems odd that a device aimed at less technical users does not appear to have direct access from the front panel or main screens to scene recall and save, I can see recalling a saved base scene being the first step for many applications.
This will be an upgrade to people who have analog Mackie, Yamaha, or Behringer mixers; given that the target consumer doesn't know enough to know they may like/need direct access or scene recall/save, it's not really an issue. It's an issue for you because you're at a level far above this mixer and would want more advanced technical features. The majority of people who will buy this won't want those and aren't willing to pay more for them.



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Tom Roche

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 04:30:18 PM »

I did note that there is apparently no delay available on the inputs or outputs, so forget using the mixer to align to backline or to align mains and subs or anything like that.
Delay is available on the outputs, but no details given.

According to the currently posted specifications, the display is 6.1"x3.5", so a 7" diagonal touchscreen, smaller than a 9.7" diagonal iPad screen so it will be interesting to see how usable it actually is or how that affects the user interface.
Agreed.  This has become even more important to me as my eyesight is degrading and I seem to misplace my reading glasses every chance I get.  ::)   Using the iPad with the DL1608 is fine as long as I'm wearing my reading glasses.  A few features in the Mackie GUI were on the small side.  I just hope the TM-16 interface is well designed.
 
With most or all of the inputs and outputs used I do see it getting top/back heavy but that seems applicable to all of the new small format digital mixers.
I tried to get a rough idea of the size of the QSC TM-16 based on the size of the DL-1608 and the number of inputs across the top as a reference.  TM-16 appears to be a little wider, not as deep, and about the same height at its tallest point.  Anyone come across dimensions & weight?  I haven't experienced any stability issues with the DL-1608 (7.9 lbs), but we typically use 10 inputs, 3 auxes and the main outs.

With the apparently non-recallable preamps pricing will probably need to be competitive with the Mackie DL (but with the caveat that you don't need to also account for the cost of an i-Pad as you do with the Mackie)...
The DL-1608 can be had by the consumer for $800 out the door and a used iPad for ~$250.  So for less than $1100 you're up and running.  Keep in mind the Mackie in its current incarnation is bare-bones in terms of features.  Wifi capability is an additional cost.  The QSC has significantly more features.

If the estimated $1299 street price for the TM-16 is accurate, assuming that's Guitar Center pricing, then many of us will wait on the Behringer x18 to see how it compares.  I'm confident the x18 will be feature packed, at least as much as the TM-16, and will guess it'll be priced slightly less than the DL-1608.
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john sanders

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 04:41:33 PM »

Thing is this thing probably weighs about 5 lbs! 16+ snake cables and the associated gravitational pull will probably tip it up in end.

My thought exactly. This little mixer will need to be velcroed to a table.
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Brad Weber

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2014, 04:48:08 PM »

regardless of your thoughts, the iPad is the dominant player in the category and makes the most sense to develop for given the user numbers.
I think not being tied to a particular third party device is a big plus for the TouchMix.  If you offer a mixer that requires an iPad to operate, not just as an optional accessory, then at least offer the option of the mixer packaged with iPad and warrantied as a system otherwise you aren't even offering a functional product.  But I think the issue here is how usable the integrated 7" diagonal touchscreen of the TouchMix will be or if many will end up also using an iPad to supplement it at FoH.
 
My point was more that the concern of a 16+ channel snake and top mounts are valid, but not a concern for QSC as the market they're going after with this mixer generally don't own or think of buying a multi channel snake. They'll have a bunch of XLR cables, etc. Nothing wrong with using it with a snake and will work fine, but the consumer QSC designed this for doesn't own a snake, unless it's a Hosa 1/4" patch snake...
I'd have the same concern with that many individual cables as with a snake.  Lots of cables hooked to the back panel and rear to panel of a compact, lightweight mixer just seems to beg for the mixer ending up on the floor.
 
This will be an upgrade to people who have analog Mackie, Yamaha, or Behringer mixers; given that the target consumer doesn't know enough to know they may like/need direct access or scene recall/save, it's not really an issue. It's an issue for you because you're at a level far above this mixer and would want more advanced technical features. The majority of people who will buy this won't want those and aren't willing to pay more for them.
I have to disagree and take the view that they may think they are getting things they are not.  Being able to hit a single scene recall button to recall a typical service or event is often seen as a major reason for churches, schools, etc. moving to a digital mixer.  If they have to go through multiple pages or use unmarked buttons to do that then that advantage can be significantly diminished, but that being the case may not be apparent to the people involved in such applications.  Similar with the non-recallable preamps, many of the users and purchasers in those applications may not understand whether the channel and scene recall incorporates the preamp gain and that they might still have to adjust those manually.  Whether they want such functionality or not or find it of sufficient value or not is one thing, knowing what they are actually getting and having it clearly presented rather than having to do a technical assessment to separate the reality from the perception and marketing is another especially with the potential market involved with this type of product.  Or put another way, it's one thing to decide something is not worth it and another to not even realize you aren't getting it.
 
Delay is available on the outputs, but no details given.
The features tab on http://www.qscaudio.com/products/Mixers/Touchmix_Series/TouchMix-16/ mentions output delay but delay is not included in the "Output Channel Processing" listed under the Specifications tab on the same page, so maybe it is included, maybe not.
 
Things like this and the touchscreen shown in the first picture on that same page showing no access to Inputs 9-16 really make me feel that this is more a concept being announced than a final product.  Give me a single line diagram, images of all touchscreens and maybe even a preliminary manual and I'd feel a lot more like it was a real product.
 
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David Lovrien

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2014, 05:33:43 PM »

I have to disagree and take the view that they may think they are getting things they are not.  Being able to hit a single scene recall button to recall a typical service or event is often seen as a major reason for churches, schools, etc. moving to a digital mixer.  If they have to go through multiple pages or use unmarked buttons to do that then that advantage can be significantly diminished, but that being the case may not be apparent to the people involved in such applications.  Similar with the non-recallable preamps, many of the users and purchasers in those applications may not understand whether the channel and scene recall incorporates the preamp gain and that they might still have to adjust those manually.
From the preliminary spec sheet:
"The TouchMix also comes with a comprehensive library of complete Mixer Scenes to get you started. User scenes may be stored or recalled from either internal or USB memory and at the user’s option, scenes may include or omit main and auxiliary mix levels."

Not a complete answer to questions asked previously, but gives some clue. We'll have to see what the screen interface actually looks like...
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Scott Bolt

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2014, 09:14:43 PM »

** Too expensive compared to the competition (DL1608 and x18)
** No recallable gains?  Really?
** Goofy power connector?

If only the DL1608 were to be considered as competition, it would have some significant advantages:

  • Record multi-track directly to an external HD
  • DCA's
  • Mute Groups
  • 4 efx engines

Unfortunately, the x18 has all these and more..... and is less expensive.
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Dan Richardson

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2014, 10:18:09 PM »

Unfortunately, the x18 has all these and more..... and is less expensive.

Seen numbers yet? Or a shipping date?
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The best sound system is no sound system. Everything else is compromise.

Chuck Simon

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Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2014, 11:27:03 PM »

I just saw the mixer at NAMM. Sweet!  Street price under a grand!  It has all the features that the targeted market needs.  I won't be buying one but lot's of people will!

The usual suspects here seem to be as full of crap as they usually are!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 11:30:32 PM by Chuck Simon »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: QSC touchmix
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2014, 11:27:03 PM »


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