ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Which way do you send monitor mixes from FOH?

pre fader pre EQ
- 22 (26.8%)
pre fader post EQ
- 40 (48.8%)
post fader post EQ
- 0 (0%)
duplicate channel strip
- 19 (23.2%)
I never do monitors from FOH
- 1 (1.2%)

Total Members Voted: 82

Voting closed: January 27, 2014, 08:32:49 AM


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: FOH monitor mix sends  (Read 16875 times)

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3667
  • Toronto
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2014, 03:24:19 PM »

As to the responses that are pre fader post EQ.
Is this your choice if you are sending from a strip and not using a duplicate channel strip?
I'm curious as to how you manage to adjust strip EQ for the FOH mix and not affect the what the musician is hearing.
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3667
  • Toronto
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 03:28:58 PM »

Not sure I understand the question....  But prefader aux/mix...  Mix has a parametric on it that is typically all we need.  We could potentially insert a graphic before or after if needed, but generally I find if we need the graphic, something else is wrong in out setup....
To clarify...
If you are sending an AUX mix to the stage for monitor application, do you prefer to send that mix pre strip EQ or post strip EQ?
In other words, if you adjust the strip EQ, do want it to affect the FOH mix only or the FOH mix and the monitor mix.
The para or graph choice was just to note that there is an overall EQ on that mix buss.
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Patrick Tracy

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 513
  • Boulder, CO, USA
    • Boulder Sound Guy
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 03:35:29 PM »

As to the responses that are pre fader post EQ.
Is this your choice if you are sending from a strip and not using a duplicate channel strip?
I'm curious as to how you manage to adjust strip EQ for the FOH mix and not affect the what the musician is hearing.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,93792.msg862393.html#msg862393

Jim McKeveny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1454
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 05:37:35 PM »

In olden days, when EQ was scarce, we would adjust the channel strip for the incoming variances (e.g. SM58/57 correction), and outboard was for transfer function (keep the Perkins & 1" radials alive).

It was good discipline and served me well as the number of mixes/submixes grew.

Logged

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2014, 05:47:37 PM »

To clarify...
If you are sending an AUX mix to the stage for monitor application, do you prefer to send that mix pre strip EQ or post strip EQ?
In other words, if you adjust the strip EQ, do want it to affect the FOH mix only or the FOH mix and the monitor mix.
The para or graph choice was just to note that there is an overall EQ on that mix buss.

Keith,
I can't think of a time when I've wanted the FOH EQ to effect my monitors, or vice versa. Good practice, at least in my old man book, treats these as two separate functions with separate needs altogether.
Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Josh Millward

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 713
  • Meridian, MS
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2014, 07:51:52 PM »

As to the responses that are pre fader post EQ.
Is this your choice if you are sending from a strip and not using a duplicate channel strip?
I'm curious as to how you manage to adjust strip EQ for the FOH mix and not affect the what the musician is hearing.
The method I have learned through use, which has treated me pretty well so far, is:
1. On the input strip you should adjust the incoming signal to correct for things like excessive proximity and other microphone peculiar details like presence peaks and the like. Essentially making the input sound right.
2. On the output EQ you should adjust the mix appropriately for the destination. In the case of the monitor mix you may need to notch for feedback or roll off some high/low end. This way what you are mixing at the console sounds right for whatever destination to which you are sending it: recording, broadcast, fill loudspeakers, etc.

So, to that end, I would prefer the EQ to always come before the Aux outputs, regardless to the Prefader/postfader control for an aux output.
Logged
Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs

Tim Halligan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 381
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2014, 12:25:06 AM »

I use a hybrid...

I usually - 99 times out of 100 - work on an analogue desk, so I use pre-fade, post eq...

But I duplicate the vocal channels so that I can have a separate eq for FOH and monitors, and not have the potential problems of compression in the wedges.

Cheers,
Tim
Logged
An analogue brain in a digital world.

Nicolas Poisson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 147
  • Paris, France
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2014, 04:33:50 AM »

As to the responses that are pre fader post EQ.
Is this your choice if you are sending from a strip and not using a duplicate channel strip?
I'm curious as to how you manage to adjust strip EQ for the FOH mix and not affect the what the musician is hearing.

I use Post EQ / pre Fader most of the time. I may use post fader in specific occasion, like CDs played during the show. I may duplicate some strips (lead vocals), but this is rather rare.

When I modify EQ for the FoH during the show, it also affects the monitor. Is this a good thing or not ? 
If the correction compensates for the now crowded venue, then it would be better that the monitor is not affected.
If the correction results from the talent now having a more harsh or poping voice because he gets excited, then smoothing the highs a bit or raising the high pass in both FoH and monitor is a good thing. It is all the more true in small venues where monitors are part of the FoH sound.

What I do:
- I EQ'ed my FoH rather flat
- I EQ'ed the monitors to sound close to the FoH, slightly brighter.
- I EQ each channel strip to sound good in the FoH
- if the talent is not comfortable with the monitor, I modify the monitor EQ.

Does it work well ?
Well... most of the time "yes", sometimes "no". It happens that the artist did not feel very comfortable during the show, but his manager tells him the sound in the venue was great. I am afraid it would not be otherwise if I switched to pre-eq or duplicated every single channel strips. Doing monitors from FoH is like being deaf once the show has started. If there were a way to reach the same quality as a dedicated monitor engineer, then there wouldn't be monitor engineers anymore.
I also think there are tons of other problems much more important than the pre/post EQ debate. Keeping a low stage SPL is much more efficient than any EQ in the monitor.

For years, I have been struggling with monitors. The best improvement was to make the monitor EQ to sound like the FoH, it definitely helped. Also, I usually need only slight adjustments during the show.

There is a reason to not duplicate channel strips: time. I do only one-offs, and I have to manage lights as well (small venue - no money). The soundcheck starts at 6PM and the band is to play at 9PM. If the soundcheck lasts more than one hour and a half, installation on stage included, the band gets tired. Bad for the show. It happened to me that the FoH sound was OK, the monitor mix was usable (not great) according to the artist. He asked for slight additional modification. And it ended up in another 30 minutes soundcheck trying to modify everything, and everything getting worse and worse. For the same reason, I often accept not so great sounding micings. I have troubles with that upright piano, but I go ahead because there are other instruments and I do not want to spend too much time on it.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:46:58 AM by Nicolas Poisson »
Logged

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3667
  • Toronto
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2014, 07:34:47 AM »


Keith,
I can't think of a time when I've wanted the FOH EQ to effect my monitors, or vice versa. Good practice, at least in my old man book, treats these as two separate functions with separate needs altogether.
This is how I look at it Bob and , when possible, run monitor sends pre/pre. Been doing it this way for years and it has worked out pretty well.
The double channel strip is a great solution if they extra strips are available.
I  don't want to have any problems with potential monitor feedback if, for an example, I end up needing to add a bit of 2.5k to a vocal.
This only applies for monitors.
I am curious if this is as common a mode of operation as I thought it would be.
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Matthew Knischewsky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 635
  • Kitchener Ontario Canada
Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2014, 08:33:17 AM »

Keith,
Almost always I prefer pre/pre because I don't want the monitors changing once they're set. If I do end up needing to EQ a channel to the monitors I'll set up a duplicate channel with post EQ sends. In the past I've set up consoles with duplicate channels for everything going to monitors but I rarely needed to adjust EQ so my SOP now is pre/pre.

Of course there's some exceptions...If I was on tour I'd do separate channels for FOH and Monitors because I'd get to know how the artist expects their monitors to sound. Or if I was mixing IEMs from FOH.

Matty K
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: FOH monitor mix sends
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2014, 08:33:17 AM »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.046 seconds with 27 queries.