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Author Topic: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours  (Read 1507 times)

Tim Harrigan

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Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« on: January 16, 2014, 10:33:25 am »

Hello All,
We recently got a contract to do 5 shows a year for 3 year run.  It was a lowest bidder situation.  The bid documents did not state anything about the load-in/setup day except that we would have one.  We now have the schedule and of the next 4 shows, two of them we cannot load-in till after 10pm, one of them is after 7pm.  it is not a huge show, load-in should be 3 hours but our callback for the show is 7am. 
Question - should I go back to the client or purchasing dept. and ask for a change order for the overtime? turnaround?  i would hate to upset them but it was lowest bidder and i'm sure my techs will be upset about the times and lack of turnaround time.
anyone had this happen before? opinions?
any ideas how i should state my case?
thanks
tim harrigan
wirebox media
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duane massey

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 11:13:12 am »

Good luck with this one. If it wasn't specified in the contract you can't really ask for a change order for something that wasn't there.
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Duane Massey
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Riley Casey

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 11:38:31 am »

If they yank the contract because you "upset" them thats a form of government corruption .. but what else is new?  How did you define the load in services you offered to provide when you made the bid?  I always describe the unknown schedule portions of any bid, government or commercial as being " 9 am - 5 pm ?? " thus staking out a basis for over time if needed.


... 
Question - should I go back to the client or purchasing dept. and ask for a change order for the overtime? turnaround?  i would hate to upset them but it was lowest bidder and i'm sure my techs will be upset about the times and lack of turnaround time.
anyone had this happen before? opinions?
any ideas how i should state my case?
thanks
tim harrigan
wirebox media

Steve M Smith

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 01:35:18 pm »

Good luck with this one. If it wasn't specified in the contract you can't really ask for a change order for something that wasn't there.

A contract is a two way agreement.  If it wasn't specified in the contract, the customer can't demand it either!

This would be an invalid, after the fact term or condition.


Steve.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 02:15:07 pm »

A contract is a two way agreement.  If it wasn't specified in the contract, the customer can't demand it either!

This would be an invalid, after the fact term or condition.


Steve.
Unspecified is unspecified, and therefore up to the interpretation of either or both parties.  In some industries - banking, for example - business hours are understood, and relatively inviolable.  The production industry is rather different, and after-hours work is perhaps the rule, as much as the exception, so it's not unreasonable for a client to assume that after-hours work is included.

Get it in writing: - schedule of load in/out, dock access, power, parking, security, fees for loading/unloading, power, etc., whose insurance will be covering the event, and anything else imaginable. 
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Brad Weber

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 04:38:09 pm »

Hello All,
We recently got a contract to do 5 shows a year for 3 year run.  It was a lowest bidder situation.  The bid documents did not state anything about the load-in/setup day except that we would have one.  We now have the schedule and of the next 4 shows, two of them we cannot load-in till after 10pm, one of them is after 7pm.  it is not a huge show, load-in should be 3 hours but our callback for the show is 7am. 
Question - should I go back to the client or purchasing dept. and ask for a change order for the overtime? turnaround?  i would hate to upset them but it was lowest bidder and i'm sure my techs will be upset about the times and lack of turnaround time.
anyone had this happen before? opinions?
any ideas how i should state my case?
If the times or schedule were not identified in the RFP and that could affect your bid then in retrospect you should have either gotten clarification during the bid period or stated your assumptions in your bid.  If nothing has actually changed from the stated or mutually understood conditions then you have no real basis for a Change Order or additional compensation.
 
Similar issues often apply to parking, dock access, handling trash or dumpster accessibility, use of service elevators, secure storage and so on, if it might affect your bid and is not clear then you probably want to get it clarified or be willing to work with whatever conditions get applied.
 
A contract is a two way agreement.  If it wasn't specified in the contract, the customer can't demand it either!

This would be an invalid, after the fact term or condition.
Neither the Client or Bidder apparently ever identified or agreed to the work not including such work hours, thus it is not actually an added or revised term or condition.  If any specific conditions or terms could affect the bid and are not addressed in the RFP then there is a responsibility by the Bidder to gain clarification of the related information during the bid process or to at least identify the conditions assumed as part of their bid.  Essentially, nothing has changed from the terms and conditions defined and/or agreed to during bidding so there is no basis for any change to the Contract.  You could always ask for additional compensation but that could also open the door to another bid then being seen as the low bid.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 10:12:48 am by Brad Weber »
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Steve Payne

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 08:59:26 pm »

Tim,
  I don't mean to be a smart ass, but in my experience, it is impossible to win with a low bid.  Good luck.  Really.
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Steve Payne
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 10:58:29 pm »

Don't expect anything more than what the contract states. What happens before or after the show isn't their problem, and you signed a contract to provide for the show. 10 hours to load in? Too bad, you get paid for the show. Need more hands? Too bad, you get paid for the show. 
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Bill Schnake

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 08:20:12 am »

Don't expect anything more than what the contract states. What happens before or after the show isn't their problem, and you signed a contract to provide for the show. 10 hours to load in? Too bad, you get paid for the show. Need more hands? Too bad, you get paid for the show.

The only thing that I would add to what Bob has said above is that if you decide to bring this up for renegotiation be prepared for any outcome including losing the contract.  The best approach might be to stick it out and when you get to the end of this contract and the next one is up for bid you have the advantage of having a good relationship with the client based on previous work and can you can address this aspect of the contract in the next round of negotiations.  I've made this mistake myself and Bob is right...we still get paid.

Bill
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Bill Schnake

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Ray Aberle

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Re: Govt Contracts - now asked to work after hours
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 11:37:26 am »

Don't expect anything more than what the contract states. What happens before or after the show isn't their problem, and you signed a contract to provide for the show. 10 hours to load in? Too bad, you get paid for the show. Need more hands? Too bad, you get paid for the show.

Well, if you wanted to be snippy, tell them "two hours does not constitute a day for setup. You agreed to provide us a load-in day, you need to do it. Here is our charge $X,XXX if you want to remove the load-in day from our agreement." Whether or not this would hold water and/or not cause further trouble remains to be seen...

As a business owner, if something like this comes up, and I know it is going to be disconcerting to my techs... I make sure I am right there with them, on the street til two am, and then back out again at 6am, or whatever if takes to get the job done and make the client happy. If I have to short myself pay so I can give a bonus to the crew, I'll do it. If I have to buy them Starbucks or RedBull to keep them kicking, I'll do it. And then, next time around, I make sure I do my due diligence in advance to make sure I am more specific in my bid documents as for timing(s) and potential for up-charges based on client changes. Because, with all of this-- it it still seems a bit unreasonable for them to ask you to make a major change to the schedule (the disappearing of the load-in day) without any financial repercussions.

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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