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Author Topic: Need to get internet from shop to home  (Read 3516 times)

Art Welter

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 05:30:36 pm »

Art what router do you have to get that kind of distance? What was the cost?
It is an Actiontec/Quest WPS PK5000, cost under $100 IIRC.

No way would I dig a 225 foot ditch and pay for cable, considering this took only 15 minutes to set up.

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Joe Lepore

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 05:40:19 pm »

Don't discount the idea of powerline networking.  I have used them very sucessfully, and I would assume since you're talking about a building next to the house, you have common power between them. 

While running a hard cable is always the best, you can get 200M service from powerline and they are not expensive - certainly easy enough to test them out.  I have run them at home as well as at shows through 300ft of 4 pin, including on generator shows without any issues.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 07:06:11 pm »

Not sure about the rules in your neck of the woods-but around here (Iowa) any time you dig, you are required to call in a locate service.  Service is paid for by the utilities, so it costs nothing for the one digging-other than the time to make a phone call.  Just keep in mind they only locate utility lines-not ones you own-and you usually own water lines after the shutoff at the curb.  Legalities or no, not a bad idea if it is available.
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Steve Swaffer

Dave Aubuchon

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 08:34:07 pm »

Not sure about the rules in your neck of the woods-but around here (Iowa) any time you dig, you are required to call in a locate service.  Service is paid for by the utilities, so it costs nothing for the one digging-other than the time to make a phone call.  Just keep in mind they only locate utility lines-not ones you own-and you usually own water lines after the shutoff at the curb.  Legalities or no, not a bad idea if it is available.
Because I'm on a farm I have ran all the power line, LP lines and water lines myself. Phone cable is only one I didn't run and It runs parallel to my driveway. So there's no worries on this subject. Had I lived anywhere else call before you dig is a good idea.
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Dave Aubuchon

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 08:59:59 pm »

I'd go for wired. If you're concerned about lightning strikes propagating through the wires, you can install surge suppressors (for what they're worth) in the CAT5x/6 line.

To me, the biggest argument against WiFi is congestion in the 2.4GHz band. If you are in an urban, suburban, or dense rural environment, the ubiquity of WiFi access points owned and installed by your neighbors can be overwhelming. Since it's a shared spectrum, the more of them there are, the more interference there will be so the lower your signal:noise ratio will be. That means lower transmission speeds. Run a utility like inSSIDer and you'll see what I mean.

If you can do 5 GHz, you'll likely be better off because there is a wider usable band and fewer users, but 5 GHz doesn't have as long a range, and it's more susceptible to dropouts due to stuff getting in the line-of-site (like steel walls).

Rant on...

Most people leave their routers/access points at full power. Most of them probably don't even know they can change it, and the ones that do know probably figure that full power will give them better speed. The truth is that it really doesn't get you higher speed, it just gives greater range. The problem is that if you aren't controlling your range, you are interfering with your neighbor's WiFi signals (and your neighbor is interfering with yours). If everyone turned down their power settings to only cover their own property, everyone would probably get better speed because the interference (S/N ratio) would be lower!

Has anyone here done RF coordination of WiFi in their own neighborhoods? (I live out in the sticks, and can't detect any other neighborhood WiFi, so it's not an issue for me.)

...done ranting.
Hi Jonathan
My closest neighbor is about 1/4 mile away. My shop exterior is all metal. Even though I need 225ft. of cable only about 155ft would have to be dug. The rest was run length inside the 2 buildings. I have to check but I don't think I can get a WiFi signal outside the metal shop building.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 09:02:45 pm by Dave Aubuchon »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 11:16:21 pm »

Buy a spool of good CAT5 OR CAT6, then take an edger and cut a slot burying the cable as you go. That will put the cable down about 4-6" and you can cover the slit by walking on it. Terminate each end with an RJ-45 and put a small 4 port hub/switch on each end. You can then run another 328' from each hub/switch, you won't lose any data, and if you take a hit it will probably stop at the hubs/switches. You don't need to enclose the cable in anything, just be careful not to cut it and it will last 5, 10, 15 years or longer. If I've done this once I've done it a thousand times with no problems ever.
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BOSTON STRONG........

Now touring nursing homes in a neighborhood near you..

Dave Aubuchon

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2014, 12:29:51 am »

Buy a spool of good CAT5 OR CAT6, then take an edger and cut a slot burying the cable as you go. That will put the cable down about 4-6" and you can cover the slit by walking on it. Terminate each end with an RJ-45 and put a small 4 port hub/switch on each end. You can then run another 328' from each hub/switch, you won't lose any data, and if you take a hit it will probably stop at the hubs/switches. You don't need to enclose the cable in anything, just be careful not to cut it and it will last 5, 10, 15 years or longer. If I've done this once I've done it a thousand times with no problems ever.
Hi Bob
I have plenty of farm equipment. So cutting a trench is no problem. But I live in Illinois and the ground will be frozen for a couple of months yet. So I think I will just lay it on the surface and then bury it as soon as it warms up.
 I currently have a Linksys WRT54GS2 V1 wireless-G broadband router and I can only get signal about 50ft outside my metal build.
I also have a brand new Linksys Smart Wi-Fi router N750. I got 5 month ago because internet provider thought I had a router problem. Turns out that wasn't the problem so I never opened it.
 If you haven't guessed by now I'm a old analog man.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2014, 01:34:07 am »

...Terminate each end with an RJ-45 and put a small 4 port hub/switch on each end...

Being an audio guy I'll assume you know about proper termination, but I'll also assume that not everyone reading this does. I've seen a lot of poorly-terminated network cables (but not necessarily by audio guys).

Keep in mind that for 10Base-T or 100Base-T Ethernet there are two BALANCED signal lines (2 pairs are used) and for 1000Base-T Gigabit Ethernet there are four balanced signal lines. This means that you can't just willy-nilly wire up the terminations and expect it to work -- even if you do it the same on both ends. The signal lines must be properly paired, or your network cable will not be able to reject interference and you'll end up with a lot of crosstalk. Just as if you had the + of one balanced mic signal on one pair of the snake, and the - on another pair.

There are two standard wiring schemes, TIA/EIA T568A and T568B. The 'B' scheme is now the most common. Pick one scheme and wire both ends the same (note that for a typical modular analog telephone base cord, the ends are wired opposite each other).

If you crimp on RJ45 plugs, make sure you use the proper type for the wire you're using. The IDC prongs for stranded wire pierce the center of the strands, while the ones for solid wire straddle the strand. Do not strip the conductors. Ensure the outer jacket is under the strain relief part of the plug.

Personally, I recommend terminating installed cables with jacks and patch panels -- it's a neater installation and allows for flexibility of moving equipment around (just change a patch cable if it's not long enough). In addition, the solid core of most "install" cable reduces the flexibility and increases the likelihood of failure with repeated flexing.

Incidentally, a "crossover" cable is wired with 'A' on one end and 'B' on the other. But crossover cables are only valid for 10- or 100Base-T; the gigabit standard specifies "auto MDI/MDIX" which means that crossover is negotiated between the two interfaces on each end of the cable. So a crossover cable isn't needed for gigabit, and a standard crossover cable might not even work with gigabit.

And one last point: the electricity can't see what color the insulation is.  ;)
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Stop confusing the issue with facts and logic!

Ed Walters

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2014, 08:24:06 am »

And one last point: the electricity can't see what color the insulation is.  ;)

Just to argue -- no, electricity cannot see the color, but with CAT cable, the colors are NOT twisted exactly the same, and there are subtle differences between the pairs....so use the right ones in the right holes on the connectors...

Ed Walters
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Brian Bolly

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Re: Need to get internet from shop to home
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2014, 12:19:24 pm »

Well I was way off on my guess on length. After breaking out the tape measure I'm about 225ft. all said and done. Because I live in a rural area I can only get 5mg download speed.
Brian can you send me links to the 2 items I would need to do it your way. So As to give me a idea of cost.

Let me say that I would much prefer linking the 2 buildings via a wire than going wireless, even if you do go wireless once you're indoors.  But, I have used this setup before outdoors, and it works great.  My guess is that if you set up a WAP inside your metal building, getting much of any signal at the house isn't going to happen - the building is probably acting as a bit of a Faraday cage, and knocking down the majority of any signal.

Ubiquiti Bullet M5:  http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#bulletm
Ubiquiti POE adapters:  http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#poe  (I think it's the 24v version, but read the M5 spec)

For antennas, I have used this one but it is an omni antenna:
http://www.l-com.com/wireless-antenna-58-ghz-8-dbi-omnidirectional-wireless-lan-antenna

In your situation, I'd probably want something a bit more directional.  Lcom makes some, as does Ubiquiti.

http://www.l-com.com/wireless-antenna-58-ghz-wifi-antennas
http://www.ubnt.com/airmax#airMaxAntennas

In total, you're probably looking at $200 or so in parts.
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