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Author Topic: Smaller Subs  (Read 2858 times)

Travis Dean

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Smaller Subs
« on: January 13, 2014, 10:32:41 pm »

I am looking to purchase some subs mainly used for small bands inside.  i currently use 8 lab subs for larger venues and outdoors.  I want something smaller that's more portable but can be used with my Labsubs when I do larger events.  Maybe as secondary subs or higher frequency subs for DJ music. 
I want a versatile subs but don't have an unlimited budget.
I've looked into JBL STX828S, Yorkville LS1208 & PV SP218BX just to name a few but not limited to.  I love the Yorkville but seems like it would be simialr to the Labsubs just a bit smaller.  Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.
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Travis Dean
Karaoke Plus, LLC

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 07:40:20 am »

I am looking to purchase some subs mainly used for small bands inside.  i currently use 8 lab subs for larger venues and outdoors.  I want something smaller that's more portable but can be used with my Labsubs when I do larger events.  Maybe as secondary subs or higher frequency subs for DJ music. 
I want a versatile subs but don't have an unlimited budget.
I've looked into JBL STX828S, Yorkville LS1208 & PV SP218BX just to name a few but not limited to.  I love the Yorkville but seems like it would be simialr to the Labsubs just a bit smaller.  Any help in this would be greatly appreciated.
As with most things you have to define the goal a bit.

Ask yourself these questions:

1: Will I have to carry them up stairs to gigs?  WIll it by by myself or with help?

2: Does the height matter?  Do I need to stack cabinets on top of them and get them high enough?

3: How much SPL do I need and what is my budget?  Do I need more cheap subs to split up for different gigs or a few better subs

4: How low do I really need to go?

Things like that are a good start.  If you want to "shoot the target" FIRST you have know exactly what the target is. THEN you choose the proper tool for the job.  Without knowing the job-then how do you know what tool to use.

The wrong tool at a good price is still the wrong tool.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Travis Dean

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 01:45:15 pm »

As with most things you have to define the goal a bit.

Ask yourself these questions:

1: Will I have to carry them up stairs to gigs?  WIll it by by myself or with help?

2: Does the height matter?  Do I need to stack cabinets on top of them and get them high enough?

3: How much SPL do I need and what is my budget?  Do I need more cheap subs to split up for different gigs or a few better subs

4: How low do I really need to go?

Things like that are a good start.  If you want to "shoot the target" FIRST you have know exactly what the target is. THEN you choose the proper tool for the job.  Without knowing the job-then how do you know what tool to use.

The wrong tool at a good price is still the wrong tool.

None of these apply.  Just need something for small bar gigs and weddings that will blend well with my LabSubs if need be for larger gigs.  Something is better than nothing right now but I don't want to waste my money on subs if they won't be able to work for me other than doing bar gigs.  Hope this makes sense.
I could afford one expensive sub right now or two of the least expensive.  More to be added in the future of course. 
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Travis Dean
Karaoke Plus, LLC

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 07:21:51 pm »

None of these apply.  Just need something for small bar gigs and weddings that will blend well with my LabSubs if need be for larger gigs.  Something is better than nothing right now but I don't want to waste my money on subs if they won't be able to work for me other than doing bar gigs.  Hope this makes sense.
I could afford one expensive sub right now or two of the least expensive.  More to be added in the future of course.
Generally a "smaller sub" means either less output and/or less low freq extension.

If less output-then you will need a bunch of them to keep up with the Lab Subs.

If the low freq extension is not as deep-then the phase response will be different (and of course it will be different simply due to the use of a horn in the lab sub), so when you combine them-at some freq they will add and at other freq they will partially cancel.

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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Travis Dean

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 08:45:52 pm »

Generally a "smaller sub" means either less output and/or less low freq extension.

If less output-then you will need a bunch of them to keep up with the Lab Subs.

If the low freq extension is not as deep-then the phase response will be different (and of course it will be different simply due to the use of a horn in the lab sub), so when you combine them-at some freq they will add and at other freq they will partially cancel.

Understandable.  Couldn't the smaller subs be used for a higher frequency, say Labsubs 30hz-60hz and smaller ones for 65hz-120hz, something like that?  That's what I had in mind initially.  I know that I would need a lot of whatever I get to keep up with the Labs but Was wondering your opinion on the 3 i mentioned since I haven't heard any of them.  Only subs around here are cheap jbl's, PV's  and yamaha's.  Neither very impressive of course in any application.
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Travis Dean
Karaoke Plus, LLC

Rick Powell

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 09:55:41 pm »

Understandable.  Couldn't the smaller subs be used for a higher frequency, say Labsubs 30hz-60hz and smaller ones for 65hz-120hz, something like that?  That's what I had in mind initially.  I know that I would need a lot of whatever I get to keep up with the Labs but Was wondering your opinion on the 3 i mentioned since I haven't heard any of them.  Only subs around here are cheap jbl's, PV's  and yamaha's.  Neither very impressive of course in any application.

It seems you are looking for a Swiss Army Knife, not another group of subs.  Something that works well as a mid-sub (also known as a "kick bin") coupled with LabSubs is not likely to work as well as the primary low end of a small system.  If I was designing the optimum low mid cabinet to pair with a LabSub, it would likely be a front horn loaded cabinet with a speaker that accentuated the 80-200 Hz range and did not sound squirrely at the top of its range.  That is usually the problem when you are trying to make a sub suited for low end try to play too high, or vice versa.    Maybe someone else has experience with a speaker that plays well as a mid with LabSubs and does a great job as a small system low sub; I just can't think of one.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 02:26:43 pm »

If you are not opposed to building your own, then the HD15 was built to go between big horns like Labsubs and Horn tops that won't reach down to mate well with Labs.

It does 60-200 Hz. You would need about 4 per side to keep up with the labs. On an indoor show with some equalization and good limiting you would have a good sub that will reach down to 45-50 hz using 2 per side. That would do just fine for a band in a bar with a couple hundred people.


http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=hd15horn
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 05:59:00 pm »

Understandable.  Couldn't the smaller subs be used for a higher frequency, say Labsubs 30hz-60hz and smaller ones for 65hz-120hz, something like that?  That's what I had in mind initially.  I know that I would need a lot of whatever I get to keep up with the Labs but Was wondering your opinion on the 3 i mentioned since I haven't heard any of them.  Only subs around here are cheap jbl's, PV's  and yamaha's.  Neither very impressive of course in any application.
So if the small subs are intended for higher bass freq-then they will not work as stand alone subs on smaller gigs.

But it all depends on what the overall goal is.  It is all a matter of tradeoffs.
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Ivan Beaver
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Travis Dean

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 07:16:51 pm »

If you are not opposed to building your own, then the HD15 was built to go between big horns like Labsubs and Horn tops that won't reach down to mate well with Labs.

It does 60-200 Hz. You would need about 4 per side to keep up with the labs. On an indoor show with some equalization and good limiting you would have a good sub that will reach down to 45-50 hz using 2 per side. That would do just fine for a band in a bar with a couple hundred people.


http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=hd15horn
Not opposed just didn't want to.  But if it's my only option which it is starting to sound like, then I can build.  What is the best driver to use, looks like there's a few options?  Also I couldn't find any processor settings or detailed specs on the completed sub?  ie. wattage ohms sensitivity
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Travis Dean
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Smaller Subs
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2014, 02:46:51 pm »

Not opposed just didn't want to.  But if it's my only option which it is starting to sound like, then I can build.  What is the best driver to use, looks like there's a few options?  Also I couldn't find any processor settings or detailed specs on the completed sub?  ie. wattage ohms sensitivity

The suitable drivers are listed. I think most people are using the Eminence though, just because it is readily available and cheap.

You are not likely to find any measurements or processor settings for a DIY design. That's one of the things that separates us from the big boys....
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