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Author Topic: new member first post  (Read 897 times)

andyolsen

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new member first post
« on: January 13, 2014, 10:03:05 pm »

Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

First off I'd like to thanks all the members for the advice I've read over the years.
Special thanks to people that work for sound companies and manufacturers.
( Like the people involved at Danley,and Art W. who used to work with Southern Thunder Sound,since I'm a MN boy.)

I'm a bassist who now needs some PA running advice.
We're just getting a small blues rock band up and running.
Gigs start this month.
On the advice of an old band leader, my band leader bought some used rental gear from a local shop.(EMI in Robinsdale MN)
Two powered speakers (QSC K-10's) and a small Soundcraft 8 channel unpowered mixer with no built in effects.
The mixer has 2 aux sends and the band is guitar,bass,drums with everyone singing.
The guitarist uses a cheap in ear rig that will use 1 of the aux sends.
I think we will probably just put 3 vocals,and a little guitar in the mix.
If the bars need it we might rent a sub for kix and bass but that's doubtful for the time being.
I might try a trick to run some moniters for the bass and drummer's vocal but for now we will go without.

So here is my question.
Effects.
No on board effects, if we buy a small effects unit what should we get?
I don't know what would be good. I just want reverb for the voices.
If we get some unit, how is it hooked up? Is it related to the stereo input channels?
Do you somehow use the channel inserts?
Can you point me to some dummies guide to sound on the web?
I've read the Yamaha beginners guide, but perhaps I missed the info about this subject.

Does this give you guys an idea of where I'm at? I've always enjoyed talking about gear with
sound guys at gigs but now I have to step up and run this little rig. I think I have a good start
but could use all the advice I can get.

Thanks!
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 10:08:56 pm »

Hi all!

Long time lurker, first time poster.

First off I'd like to thanks all the members for the advice I've read over the years.
Special thanks to people that work for sound companies and manufacturers.
( Like the people involved at Danley,and Art W. who used to work with Southern Thunder Sound,since I'm a MN boy.)

I'm a bassist who now needs some PA running advice.
We're just getting a small blues rock band up and running.
Gigs start this month.
On the advice of an old band leader, my band leader bought some used rental gear from a local shop.(EMI in Robinsdale MN)
Two powered speakers (QSC K-10's) and a small Soundcraft 8 channel unpowered mixer with no built in effects.
The mixer has 2 aux sends and the band is guitar,bass,drums with everyone singing.
The guitarist uses a cheap in ear rig that will use 1 of the aux sends.
I think we will probably just put 3 vocals,and a little guitar in the mix.
If the bars need it we might rent a sub for kix and bass but that's doubtful for the time being.
I might try a trick to run some moniters for the bass and drummer's vocal but for now we will go without.

So here is my question.
Effects.
No on board effects, if we buy a small effects unit what should we get?
I don't know what would be good. I just want reverb for the voices.
If we get some unit, how is it hooked up? Is it related to the stereo input channels?
Do you somehow use the channel inserts?
Can you point me to some dummies guide to sound on the web?
I've read the Yamaha beginners guide, but perhaps I missed the info about this subject.

Does this give you guys an idea of where I'm at? I've always enjoyed talking about gear with
sound guys at gigs but now I have to step up and run this little rig. I think I have a good start
but could use all the advice I can get.

Thanks!
Hi Andy - welcome to the forum.  There are lots of effects units that will work fine for reverb - pick up something used for cheap, and it will be a good start.

You generally run effects from post-fader aux sends.  The signal runs from the post-fade aux output jack to the input jack of the effects processor, then the output of the effects processor goes either to a dedicated effects return channel, or a regular channel on the board.  Make sure you turn down the post-fade aux send on the effects return channel, otherwise you can create a feedback loop.
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Dustin Campbell

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 01:15:23 pm »

A lexicon MX200 is pretty good for the money- you can probably get one for under a hundred bucks-
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Robert Piascik

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 01:54:14 pm »

IMHO if you want to improve the sound of the vocals you would be better off spending your money on monitors and eq than on effects but why not add both? You could certainly find some used Alesis Micro Verb or some such reverb for way under $100 but if you can hear yourselves better that would be of more benefit. Just my $.02
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andyolsen

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 08:49:56 am »

Thanks for all the advice Robert,Dustin, and Tom.

I agree about the moniters. The drummer has 2 unpowered moniters that I'm gonna try to run off the one of the aux sends
and into one of my bass heads. I have an Acoustic Image brand amp that I think I can run as a slave amp and then into the
moniters. But I still am confused if I could still run effects. The little Soundcraft board we have (EMP-8) has only 2 aux sends.
We will use one for an in ear moniter for the guitarist, and the other for the moniters.

Is there any other ways I could add effects if I use the aux sends in this way?

We won't be using either of the 2 stereo channels, can I some how use them for effects or moniters?

I'm gonna try messing with this on this weekends gigs, so any advice would be greatly apprieciated. Thanks!
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Steve.Oldridge

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 11:12:45 am »

Thanks for all the advice Robert,Dustin, and Tom.

I agree about the moniters. The drummer has 2 unpowered moniters that I'm gonna try to run off the one of the aux sends
and into one of my bass heads. I have an Acoustic Image brand amp that I think I can run as a slave amp and then into the
moniters. But I still am confused if I could still run effects. The little Soundcraft board we have (EMP-8) has only 2 aux sends.
We will use one for an in ear moniter for the guitarist, and the other for the moniters.

Is there any other ways I could add effects if I use the aux sends in this way?

We won't be using either of the 2 stereo channels, can I some how use them for effects or moniters?

I'm gonna try messing with this on this weekends gigs, so any advice would be greatly apprieciated. Thanks!
I'm not familiar with that console, but it might be possible to send an external effects signal via the MONITOR out (L/R) and return it from the effects thru one of the other open channels. Channel fader would control mix level of effect signal to mains, tho' not sure how one would control send levels to MONITOR mix, or how one would NOT send the return channel back to the MONITOR mix (avoid channel looping).
If not.. you need "more console" than you have.
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duane massey

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 05:30:38 pm »

Yep, the console you have will not effectively support 2 monitor mixes and an fx send. If the guitarist only wants himself (I assume vocal) in his IEM, then split his mic (or use insert jack) and that will free up the other aux mix. Other possibility (not ideal but workable) would be to insert the fx unit on the mix outputs. Last possibilty would be to use left output for foh and right output for gtr iem. pan everything right except for what he wants to hear. Since you only plan on using the mixer for vocals and a little gtr you can make one of these arrangements work. On another note, if you are not running drums or bass thru the system you do not need subs (unless one of you sings really, really low).
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Duane Massey
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Houston, Texas

Jerome Malsack

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 05:45:38 pm »

Rolls  PM 351   will split the vocal mic and insturment at the artist location.  Feed to the IEM along with the FOH mix. 

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Ned Ward

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 06:10:51 pm »

Yep - the Rolls PM series are great for that DIY "More Me" when you don't have enough mixes. the PM50S has the added benefit of being able to be battery powered (lasts well through a gig).
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Cosmo

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Re: new member first post
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 06:36:36 pm »


<snip>
The little Soundcraft board we have (EMP-8) has only 2 aux sends.
We will use one for an in ear moniter for the guitarist, and the other for the moniters.


I assume you meant Soundcraft EPM-8.  Along the lines of the last few posts, another option would be to pan the vocals to center and all instruments hard right.  Use the right-side main output for your main speakers (this would be mono) and send the left-side main output (this would be the vocals only) to the effects unit.  Then return one channel of the effects into an unused channel on the board (even the right-side input of a stereo channel would work), just make sure that the return channel is also hard panned right.  This method is SKETCHY at best.

A better way to do it is to pick up a simple mixer, any mixer with mic preamps, and split each vocal mic to go to both mixers.  Then you can make a sub-mix of the vocals to feed the effects unit and return L and R effects to one of the stereo channels on your Soundcraft.

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer.  Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away.  - H.D. Thoreau
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