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Author Topic: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A  (Read 2642 times)

Mauricio Velez

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DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« on: January 09, 2014, 03:59:48 pm »

Gentleman,

I currently own a SRX system and a hybrid Mackie SWA1501 with a QSC K12, I am happy with both but the SRX series is discontinued and I want to go to a non fixed angle line array system for bigger shows, with the SRX for regional Mexican, Jewish orthodox and small festivals, I am Ok, but when I do bands close to 800 people or bigger festivals, the SRX system is small and not well received and also discontinued.  I do not want to go STX.
I was checking the DB technologies T4's as other local companies use it but I was offered a very good deal with DAS aero 8A, the rep says the box is superior to the T4 and the price is way better at least for me. The other issue I have is that I am not aware of anyone using the aero8a in Atlanta, so how I am going to rent more when need it? both boxes are easy to ground stack and not heavy and can be complemented with a bigger box later on.
Another goal is to have all my speakers in the future for the same brand.  Please let me know if I left any critical information out and I will be glad to provide it.

Cordially
Mauricio
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 05:51:34 pm »

Gentleman,

I currently own a SRX system and a hybrid Mackie SWA1501 with a QSC K12, I am happy with both but the SRX series is discontinued and I want to go to a non fixed angle line array system for bigger shows, with the SRX for regional Mexican, Jewish orthodox and small festivals, I am Ok, but when I do bands close to 800 people or bigger festivals, the SRX system is small and not well received and also discontinued.  I do not want to go STX.
I was checking the DB technologies T4's as other local companies use it but I was offered a very good deal with DAS aero 8A, the rep says the box is superior to the T4 and the price is way better at least for me. The other issue I have is that I am not aware of anyone using the aero8a in Atlanta, so how I am going to rent more when need it? both boxes are easy to ground stack and not heavy and can be complemented with a bigger box later on.
Another goal is to have all my speakers in the future for the same brand.  Please let me know if I left any critical information out and I will be glad to provide it.

Cordially
Mauricio

What SRX boxes do you run?

Both the T4 and the Aero 8A are (on paper atleast) a big step back in output, whether that matters depends on the area you need to cover and how big of a hang you would deploy.

Properly powered, SRX gets pretty dang loud.
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Mauricio Velez

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2014, 08:44:13 pm »

What SRX boxes do you run?

Both the T4 and the Aero 8A are (on paper atleast) a big step back in output, whether that matters depends on the area you need to cover and how big of a hang you would deploy.

Properly powered, SRX gets pretty dang loud.

I own 4 SRX 728 and 2 SRX 725, Powered by XTI, being  trying to buy 2 more 725 for over 6 months. I know that about the XTI and I am not planning on sell them yet, but my next step includes a line array.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2014, 10:42:10 pm »

I haven't mixed on an Aero 8 rig so I can't make a direct comparison but we own 16 T4.  We're also heavily invested in JBL VerTec 4887, 4889 and 4880 subs.  It's tough competition.

As much as I love the T4 for what it is and that it paid for itself in less than 8 months, by -4 dB or so it's not in the same class as the VerTec 4887 (which I think is the minimum JBL line array comparison to the SRX725).  In fairness, the T4 rig is also -4db$ in price and -3dB# in weight (thanks, Jay) compared to 4887.  If you can live with lower total SPL the T4 can be very nice.

What a line array can give you is better uniformity of coverage, front to back, IF you have the means to fly it and dedication to learn and use the prediction tools provided.  If you're thinking about ground stacking on subs, please give up the idea of a "line" array and buy one of the other fine conventional "point source" speaker systems if you can't find another pair of 725s.

We have an annual charity fashion show & auction that I originally designed with VerTec 4887.  This year I used the T4 rig.  The audience area is roughly 110' wide x 145' deep, seated audience.  The DJ pushed the rig hard in the fashion show and I really think we ran out of rig about the time the client ran out of SPL tolerance, but the 4887 rig would be coasting.  The 140' throw seems to be past the limit for the line length 8 T4 boxes makes up.

What I've learned about line arrays:  you must fly them - yes really - and anyone who tells you differently does not listen with their ears; you must learn the prediction software and use it every time you are in a new venue or changing deployment from a previous visit; you need to learn if the prediction software accurately represents actual speaker system performance and if not, in what ways; and if it's not loud enough adding more boxes will not significantly increase the SPL (and what gains you make will come with a sacrifice in clarity), you need a bigger, louder model.

edit ps. Obligatory disclaimer - we're also DB Technologies dealers as well as owners.
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Peter Morris

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 08:13:23 am »

I haven't mixed on an Aero 8 rig so I can't make a direct comparison but we own 16 T4.  We're also heavily invested in JBL VerTec 4887, 4889 and 4880 subs.  It's tough competition.

As much as I love the T4 for what it is and that it paid for itself in less than 8 months, by -4 dB or so it's not in the same class as the VerTec 4887 (which I think is the minimum JBL line array comparison to the SRX725).  In fairness, the T4 rig is also -4db$ in price and -3dB# in weight (thanks, Jay) compared to 4887.  If you can live with lower total SPL the T4 can be very nice.

What a line array can give you is better uniformity of coverage, front to back, IF you have the means to fly it and dedication to learn and use the prediction tools provided.  If you're thinking about ground stacking on subs, please give up the idea of a "line" array and buy one of the other fine conventional "point source" speaker systems if you can't find another pair of 725s.

We have an annual charity fashion show & auction that I originally designed with VerTec 4887.  This year I used the T4 rig.  The audience area is roughly 110' wide x 145' deep, seated audience.  The DJ pushed the rig hard in the fashion show and I really think we ran out of rig about the time the client ran out of SPL tolerance, but the 4887 rig would be coasting.  The 140' throw seems to be past the limit for the line length 8 T4 boxes makes up.

What I've learned about line arrays:  you must fly them - yes really - and anyone who tells you differently does not listen with their ears; you must learn the prediction software and use it every time you are in a new venue or changing deployment from a previous visit; you need to learn if the prediction software accurately represents actual speaker system performance and if not, in what ways; and if it's not loud enough adding more boxes will not significantly increase the SPL (and what gains you make will come with a sacrifice in clarity), you need a bigger, louder model.

edit ps. Obligatory disclaimer - we're also DB Technologies dealers as well as owners.

Hi Tim,

The 4887 has 2 x 8” + 4 x 4” + 2 x 1” and is rated at 1000 watts. In comparison the T4 has 1 x 8” + 1 x 6” + 2 x 1” and is rated at 410 watts, and weighs half as much; so I’m not surprised the JBL will out run them.

As you said, for what they are the T4s are great and provide an excellent ROI.  In comparison for a little more money the new T8s sound much better and go about 4dBm louder.
 
I suspect that as Mauricio was advised, Aero 8s may sound better than the T4s, but in comparison to the T8s it may be a different story.
 
The advantage with T8s is that they will integrate perfectly with T12s if you need to expand. While T4s can also be used with T12s they don’t sound as good and need to be delayed 0.3ms relative the T12s.

If you don’t need to meet rider specifications, the T8/T12 is a great cost effective combination that can be used in so many applications. It doesn’t sound as good as boxes like Turbosound's Flex Array or d&b's V-series, but it does sound as good, if not better than many of the older respected name-brand / rider boxes.

A T12/T8 rig if needed can be scaled up to cover 5000 or more people.

http://www.audioprointernational.com/news/read/entertainment-company-looks-to-dbtechnologies-in-argentina/03945
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Mauricio Velez

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2014, 07:06:08 pm »

Finally I ended buying 6 T4's and 2 Fly bars,  I did my first comparative test with the SRX rig.
With 2 SRX 725 powered by 1  XTI 6000 in stereo and 2 SRX728S powered by 1 XTI 4000 bridged each, I normally have to reduce the XTI 6000 of the mid/his to 8 to balance the hi/sub ratio.
With 3 T4's per side over 1 SRX728S  powered by the XTI4000, the Sub was not able to keep up at all. For my 6 T4's I'm going to have to carry the 4 SRX728S I own, until I buy the S20's. What impressed me the most is the way they really work together, 1 box alone sounds barely OK, 2 boxes sound way better, 3 boxes together really sound great.
Thanks to  John from Trinity productions for a great sale,  I choose him because the reviews he wrote in this Forum and in Youtube. Disclaimer: I work for Solaris but we are not DB Technologies dealers.
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Rick Alan

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2014, 11:35:26 pm »

Mauricio congratulations on the new purchase.

My inquiring mind whats to know why when people consider db t4 or t8 they do not consider RCF HDL20a?  I understand the RCF is 2 way and db 3 way. On paper the RCF appears to get much louder.  Has anyone done a side by side of these speakers?

Thanks
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Mauricio Velez

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 02:35:46 pm »

Mauricio congratulations on the new purchase.

My inquiring mind whats to know why when people consider db t4 or t8 they do not consider RCF HDL20a?  I understand the RCF is 2 way and db 3 way. On paper the RCF appears to get much louder.  Has anyone done a side by side of these speakers?

Thanks

My reason was cross renting, same reason I did not choose DAS, I can rent extra T4 and T12 with several companies in Atlanta.
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Mauricio Velez

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 11:47:25 am »

Finally I ended buying 6 T4's and 2 Fly bars,  I did my first comparative test with the SRX rig.
With 2 SRX 725 powered by 1  XTI 6000 in stereo and 2 SRX728S powered by 1 XTI 4000 bridged each, I normally have to reduce the XTI 6000 of the mid/his to 8 to balance the hi/sub ratio.
With 3 T4's per side over 1 SRX728S  powered by the XTI4000, the Sub was not able to keep up at all. For my 6 T4's I'm going to have to carry the 4 SRX728S I own, until I buy the S20's. What impressed me the most is the way they really work together, 1 box alone sounds barely OK, 2 boxes sound way better, 3 boxes together really sound great.
Thanks to  John from Trinity productions for a great sale,  I choose him because the reviews he wrote in this Forum and in Youtube. Disclaimer: I work for Solaris but we are not DB Technologies dealers.

I spoke a little soon about the T4's, doing further comparison with the SRX725.  Using SRX728S for both, is not that the T4's are louder, is that the SRX725 help the subs,  so you run out of bass sooner with the T4's, all my tests have been ground stacked.
My Question to Tim and all: Side by side the SRX combo sounds way better that the SRX/T4 combo (SRX Is a little louder but the there is a huge difference in the highs) The T4 in any EQ setting sound dull in comparasion to the SRX. Is this because I am ground stacking?, Is this the way Line arrays sound to avoid excess highs and mids when you use a lot of them? or is just a case that you get what you paid for?
Thank you for all your inputs.

Mauricio
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: DB Technologies VS Aero 8A
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 11:58:36 am »

I spoke a little soon about the T4's, doing further comparison with the SRX725.  Using SRX728S for both, is not that the T4's are louder, is that the SRX725 help the subs,  so you run out of bass sooner with the T4's, all my tests have been ground stacked.
My Question to Tim and all: Side by side the SRX combo sounds way better that the SRX/T4 combo (SRX Is a little louder but the there is a huge difference in the highs) The T4 in any EQ setting sound dull in comparasion to the SRX. Is this because I am ground stacking?, Is this the way Line arrays sound to avoid excess highs and mids when you use a lot of them? or is just a case that you get what you paid for?
Thank you for all your inputs.

Mauricio
You need to get the array over the heads of your audience, otherwise people absorb the HF.  Running the array at 0° box angle also creates interaction issues that cause fidelity problems (comb filtering).  As Tim said above, you need to fly the array and use the calculator to set the system up for your room to get anywhere close to the best possible fidelity.
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