ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: DMM suggestions?  (Read 8957 times)

Matt Errend

  • SR Forums
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 04:37:22 pm »

Molded into the back of the meter above
Conforms to
IEE 61010-1
IEC 61010-2-032
600V CAT.3
CE

Unfortunately, it's easy for Chinese OEMs to burn in the certification markings into their DMMs, but never actually have them certified. There are numerous videos online of DMMs with CAT/UL/CE/IEC ratings failing to meet their ratings. Dave Jones of EEVblog has a bunch of great multimeter review videos, and has some excellent explanations as to why some meters are worth it, and why some aren't. For example, this "CAT IV" rated meter has $.01 glass fuses on it's inputs, and would never hold up to certification. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Tkm21dI1g

If you're playing with low voltage electronics, buy whatever, maybe it will work well, maybe it wont. But if you're probing on and around 200V+ circuits, buy something worth owning and learn how to use it, safely.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 07:38:11 pm by Matt Errend »
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18549
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 08:43:45 pm »

Unfortunately, it's easy for Chinese OEMs to burn in the certification markings into their DMMs, but never actually have them certified. There are numerous videos online of DMMs with CAT/UL/CE/IEC ratings failing to meet their ratings. Dave Jones of EEVblog has a bunch of great multimeter review videos, and has some excellent explanations as to why some meters are worth it, and why some aren't. For example, this "CAT IV" rated meter has $.01 glass fuses on it's inputs, and would never hold up to certification. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Tkm21dI1g

If you're playing with low voltage electronics, buy whatever, maybe it will work well, maybe it wont. But if you're probing on and around 200V+ circuits, buy something worth owning and learn how to use it, safely.

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Stephen Swaffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1969
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 09:05:57 pm »

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

So the real question is "Do you trust the manufacturer (and that assumes you know who manufactures it)?  That is where using a name brand that has built it's business on providing quality tools does in fact pay off.
Logged
Steve Swaffer

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1172
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 08:23:26 am »

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.
Tim, that'll mean a lot to my widow, as she chases down some Chinese supplier for an explanation on how I got zapped.
Just get a Fluke.
End of discussion.
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18549
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2017, 02:07:15 pm »

Steve, Chris, I'm pointing out that all we have is the manufacturer's *statement*.  That Fluke or Amprobe or Triplette or HP.... have track records of meeting their declarations and specs is a good thing and not one I'm dismissing.

I'm only saying that absent personal experience or anecdotal evidence of failure of a specific product, we *really* don't know, do we?

And no, I don't own cheap knock-off meters... 8) 
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Matt Errend

  • SR Forums
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2017, 04:23:04 pm »

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

There are import rules designed to keep products that have fraudulent certifications off of the domestic market, but unfortunately customs has a hard time keeping up with all the junk hitting our shores. Consumers can do the legwork themselves and contact the issuing group to see if a particular model/ make of equipment has actually been tested and certified, or if product markings are just lies.

Buying a name brand with a trusted reputation is a good idea, but there are a number of good "value" meters available that shouldn't blow up in your hand if you accidentally put it to 220V while you had it set to measure resistance, but it's always a good idea to do some research before buying a piece of equipment you're going to trust your life to.

IMO if you're doing regular venue tie-ins, or dealing with portable generators in the 50kW+ range, buy yourself a good CAT III 600V or better meter from a trusted brand and keep it and especially the probes in good condition.

Logged

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1172
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2017, 04:49:26 pm »

Steve, Chris, I'm pointing out that all we have is the manufacturer's *statement*.  That Fluke or Amprobe or Triplette or HP.... have track records of meeting their declarations and specs is a good thing and not one I'm dismissing.

I'm only saying that absent personal experience or anecdotal evidence of failure of a specific product, we *really* don't know, do we?

And no, I don't own cheap knock-off meters... 8)
All I was getting at was when your life can so easily be put in danger, what use is that "pretty good for 30 bucks" meter, when you can pony up some more for a meter that is trusted daily by so many working electricians.
Bunch of years ago, someone gave me a bargain basement DMM. Back at the shop, I put it through the Chop Saw, and tossed it. One of the Shop Lackies said he would have been happy to take it. I told him "I would never trust my life to it. Why would I want to give it to you?" I told him I'd go halvsies when he wanted a Fluke. Couple of months later, he got a REAL meter.
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18549
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2017, 05:55:50 pm »

All I was getting at was when your life can so easily be put in danger, what use is that "pretty good for 30 bucks" meter, when you can pony up some more for a meter that is trusted daily by so many working electricians.
Bunch of years ago, someone gave me a bargain basement DMM. Back at the shop, I put it through the Chop Saw, and tossed it. One of the Shop Lackies said he would have been happy to take it. I told him "I would never trust my life to it. Why would I want to give it to you?" I told him I'd go halvsies when he wanted a Fluke. Couple of months later, he got a REAL meter.
Chris.

Steve, Chris, I'm pointing out that all we have is the manufacturer's *statement*.  That Fluke or Amprobe or Triplette or HP.... have track records of meeting their declarations and specs is a good thing and not one I'm dismissing.


And no, I don't own cheap knock-off meters... 8) 
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.031 seconds with 19 queries.