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Author Topic: Midsized festival -> Line Array  (Read 3584 times)

Tijs Proost

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Midsized festival -> Line Array
« on: December 27, 2013, 07:24:06 am »

Hi all,

I'm in the organising team of a midsized festival (1500pl) in Belgium, recently whe received new regulations that require us to redesign our audio setup. LAeq,60min ≤ 100 dB(A) is the new benchmark, currently our setup is very basic, woofers and speakers blasting the sound in the crowd.

We want to keep our sound level in front of the stage @  LAeq,60min ≤ 100 dB(A) and keep the rest of the area more quiet to give the crowd the chance to rest and have a drink.

We have had numoures offers al presenting us a Line-array system. It is quite an investment but is it worth the money? What is your opinion? is it enough to just keep the current speakers and raise them of the floor or do we realy need the line array to give the crowd a desent sound quality?
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 07:43:22 am »

Hi all,

I'm in the organising team of a midsized festival (1500pl) in Belgium, recently whe received new regulations that require us to redesign our audio setup. LAeq,60min ≤ 100 dB(A) is the new benchmark, currently our setup is very basic, woofers and speakers blasting the sound in the crowd.

We want to keep our sound level in front of the stage @  LAeq,60min ≤ 100 dB(A) and keep the rest of the area more quiet to give the crowd the chance to rest and have a drink.

We have had numoures offers al presenting us a Line-array system. It is quite an investment but is it worth the money? What is your opinion? is it enough to just keep the current speakers and raise them of the floor or do we realy need the line array to give the crowd a desent sound quality?
Per forum rules, you need to change your forum username to be your full real name.
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Tijs Proost

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 08:20:44 am »

Per forum rules, you need to change your forum username to be your full real name.

Done!
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dick rees

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 08:28:08 am »

Done!

What equipment are you using now (brand/model)?

How is it deployed?  It would seem you are ground stacking, but how high do the stacks reach?

What are the dimensions of the listening area?  How deep, how wide?

What other buildings, activities, etc surround the area where you operate?  Who are the neighbors?
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Tijs Proost

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 12:27:56 pm »

I added a picture of the current stack (JBL . Back then we had a crowd of around 1000pl.
This year we are expecting to have 1500pl, we are creating a larger area for the crowd to listen to the bands.

The second picture shows the area we used this year, the crowd will be standing around 40-45m away from the stage over an area 30-35m wide.

The surrounding area is plain field.

Should we ether go larger with the current stack or will the investment of hiring line-arrays make the difference? (it will cost arround 1500 plus for the line array and 1000 for 2 pa towers and rigging)

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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 01:48:19 pm »

...
We want to keep our sound level in front of the stage @  LAeq,60min ≤ 100 dB(A) and keep the rest of the area more quiet to give the crowd the chance to rest and have a drink....

100dBA at exactly what distance?  If it's at 1m in front of the speakers you already have way more speakers than you need.
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Mark McFarlane
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Jelmer de Jong

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 02:56:45 pm »

100dBA at exactly what distance?  If it's at 1m in front of the speakers you already have way more speakers than you need.
The Belgium rules stated that de sound limit must be measured at a representative point in the venue. The next sentence in the document suggest the FOH position as a valid place to perform the measurement. This can be 10 feet from the stage if the room is barely 13 feet, this can also be 100 feet if the venue is 400 feet.

I suggest you keep using your current speakers, but place them higher and point them down. You get a lilttle bit more absorption from humans, a little less polution since the HF-drivers aren't blasting in the air and the relative difference in volume-level between front an back is reduced.
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Scott Stephens

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 04:10:58 pm »


Tijs,
 It looks to me that scaffolding would be a good thing for you to invest in.  A proper line array is outrageously priced and unless you have the money now to buy it, and the money later to recoup the cost; scaffolding is the way to go. Also, you may want to consider the extra insurance costs of putting something up in the air. Here in the states, insurance and the associated costs hurt the bottom line big time.
 Don't get caught up in the hype. A good point source system can cover a lot of ground as well as a line array. 
Just my 2cents. Good luck
scott
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2013, 08:02:19 pm »

It looks as though you are using JBL SRX725 top cabinets, 3 per side.  The dispersion of those cabinets is 75 degrees, so as deployed, you are going to have some significant overlap in coverage causing unpredictable results. 2 cabinets per side would probably result in better overall sound than 3, although it doesn't look as cool.

Still, those cabinets are going to offer you plenty of sound for a group of 1500 people, especially if you want it louder in the front and quieter in the back.  Raising up the cabinets a bit and tilting them down will help focus the maximum volume where you want it, right in the middle of the crowd.  It will reduce the amount of sound lost into space where only the birds can hear it.  I'd set scaffolding on the side of the stage and place the speakers there. This will give you a wider coverage pattern, and more stage front for the band to work with.

As far as investing in a line array, all that would do is put you in the kool kid group that has a line array, and cost you a ton of money.  One advantage that the line array does have is that each speaker in the array has a much narrower coverage pattern, so you can adjust the volumes of each speaker to get the desired volume where you want it.  Usually this would be used to balance the sound so that the speakers up high pointing to the back of the area are set higher than the ones pointing at the front row, much closer to the audience.  You've stated that this is the exact opposite of what you want.  Physics alone, with a single source cabinet is going to do what you want.
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Brian Jojade

Ray Aberle

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Re: Midsized festival -> Line Array
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2013, 10:51:40 pm »

Tijs,
 It looks to me that scaffolding would be a good thing for you to invest in.  A proper line array is outrageously priced and unless you have the money now to buy it, and the money later to recoup the cost; scaffolding is the way to go. Also, you may want to consider the extra insurance costs of putting something up in the air. Here in the states, insurance and the associated costs hurt the bottom line big time.
 Don't get caught up in the hype. A good point source system can cover a lot of ground as well as a line array. 
Just my 2cents. Good luck
scott
Hi Scott, Brian, if you noted the OP's second message, they are looking at hiring in a line array system, NOT purchasing. You guys are both right with the pricing involved with line array boxes... The initial investment plus storage, maintenance, upgrades, etc. as Tim would say, you need a "line," not a "dash."

To the OP, depending on what attendance levels you are looking at for this year... You SRX boxes may still work. I have a regular gig in Seattle each year I do with two 725s and three 728s per side, for dance music. Not the best, but it does the job and the client is happy.

Ray, "wants to buy some VerTecs this year" Aberle
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