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[Tomm Williams]

I need some input here as to experiences with either. I'm driving myself nuts trying to decide which to go with. For a proper set up with crank lifts, I'm looking at the GT st157's (4) and two 6' sections of square tube trussing. That along with the flyware for my two sets of Bag End Crystals puts me fairly close (if not over) $4,000.00.

I can purchase two pairs of 6' scaffolding, extentions, outriggers and cover cloths for less than half of that. I estimate the total footprint to be about the same either way.

My main reason for leaning towards crank lifts is the ease of getting the speakers in the air. I see they offer an arm mounted pulley system for the scaffolding that can accomplish the same thing.

Who is using what and why?

[Ivan Beaver]

I need some input here as to experiences with either. I'm driving myself nuts trying to decide which to go with. For a proper set up with crank lifts, I'm looking at the GT st157's (4) and two 6' sections of square tube trussing. That along with the flyware for my two sets of Bag End Crystals puts me fairly close (if not over) $4,000.00.

I can purchase two pairs of 6' scaffolding, extentions, outriggers and cover cloths for less than half of that. I estimate the total footprint to be about the same either way.

My main reason for leaning towards crank lifts is the ease of getting the speakers in the air. I see they offer an arm mounted pulley system for the scaffolding that can accomplish the same thing.

Who is using what and why?

Just some other things to consider.

If you go with scaffolding-how are you going to get the speakers on top of it?

Time to setup.

Storage space in vehicle

Ease of getting up stairs if needed

There are advantages and disadvantages to each, you need to weigh YOUR needs.

[Brian Jojade]

The nice thing about scaffolding is that it's fairly easy to obtain.  If you're traveling to an event, having the promotor source a bunch of scaffolding for you would mean you don't have to transport it.  As long as it's the same size as you spec, your covers, outriggers, etc, should be all you need to bring.

[Stu McDoniel]

I need some input here as to experiences with either. I'm driving myself nuts trying to decide which to go with. For a proper set up with crank lifts, I'm looking at the GT st157's (4) and two 6' sections of square tube trussing. That along with the flyware for my two sets of Bag End Crystals puts me fairly close (if not over) $4,000.00.

I can purchase two pairs of 6' scaffolding, extentions, outriggers and cover cloths for less than half of that. I estimate the total footprint to be about the same either way.

My main reason for leaning towards crank lifts is the ease of getting the speakers in the air. I see they offer an arm mounted pulley system for the scaffolding that can accomplish the same thing.

Who is using what and why?

Tom I like the idea of scaffolding..BUT I dont like the idea of
the amount of space it takes in the trailer/truck.
Horse a Piece

[Cailen Waddell]

Crank lifts have adjustable height. Scaffolding is constrained by buck size. If you have 6' bucks, then you can do 6, 12, 18, etc, depending on what you rent.  I don't know your business model, but what happens if you play a ballroom with 11'8 ceilings?

Crank lifts/stands seem to offer more future flexibility, at an added cost.  You can always rent scaffold, so try it for a while?

[Tim McCulloch]

Crank lifts have adjustable height. Scaffolding is constrained by buck size. If you have 6' bucks, then you can do 6, 12, 18, etc, depending on what you rent.  I don't know your business model, but what happens if you play a ballroom with 11'8 ceilings?

Crank lifts/stands seem to offer more future flexibility, at an added cost.  You can always rent scaffold, so try it for a while?

Renting nice, clean scaffolding is pretty hit or miss.  Even if you're wrapping it the stucco lumps show through.

We own Genie ST lifts and a pair of Global (I think) telescoping tube crank lifts.  We also own a bunch of 3', 5' and 6.5' scaffolding frames, x-braces and leveling jacks.  Every from of elevation has limits of usefulness, practicality, or suitability outdoors.  Sometimes it seems we don't have enough options...

[Mike Pyle]

Unless you are planning to put up a full width lighting truss I'd pass on the truss stands and instead buy a pair of lifts that are designed to handle a cantilevered load, such as Genies, Sumners, or VMB line array lifts. They will cost more initially but will work better than the method you are contemplating.

[boburtz]

Who is using what and why?

Applied makes a "T" bar with a hanging yoke on it for their L16 lifts. you can hang a speaker on each side and aim them appropriately. The bar is rated for the same weight as the lift, so 500#. You can only hang two speakers from each lift (unless you are hanging speakers under one another), so it has its limitations, but I find that it works really well and couldn't be easier to deploy. Because the "T" only lowers to about 6' off the ground, I stand each speaker on an "On-Stage" WS540s stand (one on each side to maintain balance) to hook it to the hanging bar,  so I don't have to hold it there while I'm trying to connect the  shackles, thus making it a one man job.

[Tomm Williams]

Now that might work. I prefer the profile of one lift but didn't know any could be loaded like that.  I'll check that out.

[Jamin Lynch]

Applied makes a "T" bar with a hanging yoke on it for their L16 lifts. you can hang a speaker on each side and aim them appropriately. The bar is rated for the same weight as the lift, so 500#. You can only hang two speakers from each lift (unless you are hanging speakers under one another), so it has its limitations, but I find that it works really well and couldn't be easier to deploy. Because the "T" only lowers to about 6' off the ground, I stand each speaker on an "On-Stage" WS540s stand (one on each side to maintain balance) to hook it to the hanging bar,  so I don't have to hold it there while I'm trying to connect the  shackles, thus making it a one man job.

Where is this T bar and yoke you speak of? I couldn't find it on Applied website.

[Bradford "BJ" James]

Where is this T bar and yoke you speak of? I couldn't find it on Applied website.

Bottom of p.40 of their catalogue.
Cheers,
BJ

[Jamin Lynch]

Applied makes a "T" bar with a hanging yoke on it for their L16 lifts. you can hang a speaker on each side and aim them appropriately. The bar is rated for the same weight as the lift, so 500#. You can only hang two speakers from each lift (unless you are hanging speakers under one another), so it has its limitations, but I find that it works really well and couldn't be easier to deploy. Because the "T" only lowers to about 6' off the ground, I stand each speaker on an "On-Stage" WS540s stand (one on each side to maintain balance) to hook it to the hanging bar,  so I don't have to hold it there while I'm trying to connect the  shackles, thus making it a one man job.

Do you have some pictures of this set up you could share with us? Would like to see how it looks if ya don't mind.

[Ryan Grandusky]

Do you have some pictures of this set up you could share with us? Would like to see how it looks if ya don't mind.

It's not a real world use picture but for a picture of the product check the bottom left corner of the Applied Lift Accessories Cut Sheet: Hanging Style - Item No. 1-00-018

http://www.appliednn.com/pdfs/L16M_and_Accessories.pdf

[Jamin Lynch]

It's not a real world use picture but for a picture of the product check the bottom left corner of the Applied Lift Accessories Cut Sheet: Hanging Style - Item No. 1-00-018

http://www.appliednn.com/pdfs/L16M_and_Accessories.pdf

Thanks. I finally found that. Pics of real world set up would be nice to see.

I wish somebody made a similar crank up lift and T bar/yoke assembly that lowered all the way down to speaker height so you don't have to lift them up just to hang from the T bar.

[Ted Christensen]

It's not a real world use picture but for a picture of the product check the bottom left corner of the Applied Lift Accessories Cut Sheet: Hanging Style - Item No. 1-00-018

http://www.appliednn.com/pdfs/L16M_and_Accessories.pdf

Why so much space between the speakers?  What if you needed to tight pack them or add a down angle?

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Who is using what and why?

I use scaffold:

1.  Cheaper.

2.  More stable in most applications.  Easier to level.

3.  No tripping hazard from legs/outriggers.

4.  Easy to tarp the speakers for weather changes.

5.  I can't use crank-up lifts when I need to repair the gutters on the house or do any painting.  I can also use the scaffold with the wheels for working on installations.

[Mike Pyle]

Years ago I did a gig in a small arena where I used U215s for mains and U15s for outfill to hit the side seating. This is the rigging I used. Note that except for the pullback straps the rigging is all steel. The T-Bar is the standard Applied truss adapter with adjustable width expanders made from heavy steel box tubing added.

[Tomm Williams]

Years ago I did a gig in a small arena where I used U215s for mains and U15s for outfill to hit the side seating. This is the rigging I used. Note that except for the pullback straps the rigging is all steel. The T-Bar is the standard Applied truss adapter with adjustable width expanders made from heavy steel box tubing added.

Mike did you make (or have made) that lift?

[Tomm Williams]

I use scaffold:

1.  Cheaper.

2.  More stable in most applications.  Easier to level.

3.  No tripping hazard from legs/outriggers.

4.  Easy to tarp the speakers for weather changes.

5.  I can't use crank-up lifts when I need to repair the gutters on the house or do any painting.  I can also use the scaffold with the wheels for working on installations.

Dick do you happen to have any photos of your set up at an event?

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Dick do you happen to have any photos of your set up at an event?

Sorry, no.  I'm too busy working to take photos.  I take a camera with me, but always forget it in the van. 

[Tomm Williams]

Sorry, no.  I'm too busy working to take photos.  I take a camera with me, but always forget it in the van.

Can you give a description of the set up ? how tall are the scaffolds, do you stack multiples, how do you get your speakers on top, how long to set up, transportation issues ?

[Mike Pyle]

Mike did you make (or have made) that lift?

The stand in the photo is an Applied Electronics L16.

[Jamin Lynch]

Years ago I did a gig in a small arena where I used U215s for mains and U15s for outfill to hit the side seating. This is the rigging I used. Note that except for the pullback straps the rigging is all steel. The T-Bar is the standard Applied truss adapter with adjustable width expanders made from heavy steel box tubing added.

Makes me dizzy 

[boburtz]

Do you have some pictures of this set up you could share with us? Would like to see how it looks if ya don't mind.

Here are a couple that I took when I first received all of the parts to put it together. You can see the little "on-stage" stands that I lift the 650 onto, then take my time to shackle them to the "T". This really works well. I'm surprised I don't see more of this type of setup around. With these lifts I can get the bottom of the KF650 about 12' off the ground. The swivel yoke has a pullback point, so I can adjust the angle as well.

This was a first-run mock up of the plan. I've since shortened the T to make it narrower, to closer pack the speakers for a more stable setup. The stac chain works better than the wire slings for adjustability, and shorter is better for stability. When I bought the slings (second pic), the shortest I could get them was 18", and that's just too long when put into practical use in this setting.

[ProSoundWeb Community]