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Author Topic: Volume Control for JF100s  (Read 491 times)

Paul Frith

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Volume Control for JF100s
« on: December 16, 2013, 09:41:19 am »

Hi All,

In our building we have a QSC PLX2402 Amp that is hooked up to 2 JF100 speakers. The amp is 425 W @ 8 Ohms (which the JF100's are).

The problem I have is that the Amp is locked away in a tech cupboard in another room, but I would like to control the volume from within the room. I am therefore looking for some kind of stereo volume pot that can handle 8 Ohm 425 W that I can run the speaker wires through. I have found plenty that do 8 Ohm 50 W, but I assume these wouldn't be appropriate. This is not my area of expertise, so any solutions/explanations would be gratefully received.

Cheers,

Paul.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 10:11:57 am by Paul Frith »
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Joseph D. Macry

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 10:27:46 am »


I usually don't see volume controls rated to that kind of power.
It would be much easier, I think, to put a line-level volume control on the line/lines feeding the amplifier.
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Ryan C. Davis

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 10:32:54 am »

X2.

You'll fry a 50 watt volume control in a snap. Also, most of those 50w vc's are transformer based which means you get 10 adjustments to your volume not an infinite adjustment. It would be waaay easier and more proper to put a small preamp level box where you need your adjustment. I haven't looked but I'm sure radial or radio design labs has something for that purpose.
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Ryan Davis

Paul Frith

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 05:47:58 pm »

I usually don't see volume controls rated to that kind of power.
It would be much easier, I think, to put a line-level volume control on the line/lines feeding the amplifier.

Unfortunately that is not really an option in this case. Basically this is a feed through from the main hall - where our sound system is - into the lobby, where these speakers (but not the amp) are. I would like some control over the volume of the speakers in the Lobby from the Lobby.

X2.

You'll fry a 50 watt volume control in a snap. Also, most of those 50w vc's are transformer based which means you get 10 adjustments to your volume not an infinite adjustment. It would be waaay easier and more proper to put a small preamp level box where you need your adjustment. I haven't looked but I'm sure radial or radio design labs has something for that purpose.

Is this something that can be placed post amp? I've tried googling "preamp level box" - but only seem to get results pertaining to DI boxes. Is there any chance you can give an example of what you're referring to, so I can research a little more thoroughly?

Thanks for your responses guys - I know it's not ideal, but with the way our systems been built - putting a volume control of any kind just before the speakers would be the simplest solution.

Cheers,

Paul.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 07:24:51 pm »

I have used these before.  You can run the control cable pretty much as long as you want with no sonic issues since no audio goes on the cable.

http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=13
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 10:45:14 pm »

Unfortunately that is not really an option in this case. Basically this is a feed through from the main hall - where our sound system is - into the lobby, where these speakers (but not the amp) are. I would like some control over the volume of the speakers in the Lobby from the Lobby.

Is this something that can be placed post amp?

I know of no speaker level volume control that is designed to handle anything close to that wattage.  Using anything less is an absolute fire hazard.  That heat has to go somewhere and if your transferring it to components that aren't designed to take it they will burn up.  Now let's install that in a wall.  Bad idea.

The correct way to do this is to remotely control a preamp, as mentioned above.  And if you have any possible way to get a single tiny little cat5 cable from the lobby to the amp room, there is no reason to do this any other way.  If there is no way to get any wire there, then read on.

This should work fine but is definitely less than ideal.  You say that your amp is rated at 425 wpc and unless your diming it on a regular basis, you're probably not getting there that often.  Get one of these:

http://www.audiocontrol.com/17612/645207/OEM-Integration/LC2i-2ch-Line-Out-Converter-with-AccuBASStm-and-Subwoofer-Control.html

It is around $100.  It is a car audio product and will require a 12vdc power supply.  Do not get a different one because it's cheaper.  For the same reason as above, this one is designed to work with the wattage you're potentially feeding it.  It also has a bunch of "features" you will not need or want to use.  This will convert your speaker signal to a line level signal that you can feed a local amplifier of your choosing in the lobby for your lobby speakers from that area.  From there you can use the gain control on the amp to adjust the level.

It may be worth a few moments to call Audio Control and discuss some options with them directly.  They've been responsive in the past when looking for specialized products.

You will run across people with the best intentions telling you that you can just use a cheap low voltage volume control from "Acme" audio and that your just being too careful.  I'm here to tell you there is no such thing as "too careful".  Please don't burn down your church.  It can and does happen.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 10:56:26 pm by Lee Douglas »
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Paul Frith

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 01:14:24 pm »

You will run across people with the best intentions telling you that you can just use a cheap low voltage volume control from "Acme" audio and that your just being too careful.  I'm here to tell you there is no such thing as "too careful".  Please don't burn down your church.  It can and does happen.

I hear you - and I most certainly don't want to do that!

I've had a rethink (as per everyone's recommendations), and a fruitful search in our tech cupboard - I've managed to dig out  a bunch of old NetCIRA modules (ES-2, ES-2 Pro and MS88) along with a couple of remote control units (LR-1). I can run a CAT5 back from lobby connected to the remote unit, into say the ES-2 Pro, and control the volume coming out of that (the rest of the system is also Ethersound - so there should be no problems hooking it all up). However I have one small problem. All the NetCIRA products use what they call a "EURO 6-pin" connector to connect to the LR-1. I cannot find a product under this name online - and certainly not in the UK. Does anyone know what this is - is there another name for it? I feel like it should be a fairly standard connector... (Please seed attached photos).


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Lee Douglas

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 01:36:52 pm »

Does anyone know what this is - is there another name for it? I feel like it should be a fairly standard connector... (Please seed attached photos).

Try searching under "Phoenix Connector".  It is a fairly common connector, but there are many variations.  It looks like AMX/Crestron uses the same thing, but a call to the manufacturer of your equipment would be the best bet.
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Paul Frith

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 10:27:44 am »

Try searching under "Phoenix Connector".  It is a fairly common connector, but there are many variations.  It looks like AMX/Crestron uses the same thing, but a call to the manufacturer of your equipment would be the best bet.

Amazing - thank you, have now sourced the connectors and can get on with implementing this.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread - it has been hugely helpful.

Cheers,

Paul.
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brian maddox

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Re: Volume Control for JF100s
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 11:32:57 am »

Wanna mix your entire band wirelessly using an iPad in another room?  No problem.

Put a simple volume control on a speaker in the lobby?  Problem.

This thread is a great example of something i tell the folks i work with at my church all the time.  Please ALWAYS ask me before you assume something you want to do will be easy to implement.    Sometimes the simple things are not so simple.  And the complicated things are not so complicated. 
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brian maddox
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