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Author Topic: Home Network Attached Storage device  (Read 6508 times)

Craig Hauber

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2013, 12:22:21 am »

For backup of backup I use a drive dock and a robocopy script. That way I know where my backup is.

 What happens to your backups when the cloud company goes belly up or they screw up?

I also know the NSA isn't trolling my data.

Edit:
I was looking at an Apple Time Capsule and so asked the guys at the Apple Store how to back it up?  They were puzzled. It never occurred to them that the Time Capsule might fail :-(

The time capsule is a backup device, back it up by buying multiples of it.  -Same goes for any non-apple systems too.  (At what point do you have enough backups of your backup?)

Seriously though, use a mac mini as your NAS device then back it up with the Time Capsule!

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Jonathan Kok

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2013, 10:21:22 am »

I've got a ReadyNAS Duo running as the primary storage device in our office. The only issue we have with it is that it doesn't particularly like power outages, and will rebuild the array every single time power is lost (unless it's actually 'shut down'). No loss of data, though. Not cheap - $400 plus drives - but, IMHO, worth the security.
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George Dougherty

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2013, 12:46:28 pm »

I'm an IT guy by trade, build my own computers for audio and video processing as well as spec, install and configure servers for clients on a regular basis.  I've run several SAC systems I designed built and support over the last 4 years so I appreciate rolling my own.
The Synology or Qnap units are great little units that I'd much rather deploy than a home brewed FreeNAS box.  They're every bit as fast as a standalone server and the better units support link aggregation with the right network hardware.  The Synology 713+ I deployed the other day to replace a users single drive Buffalo linkstation took about 30 minutes to fully configure and prep with hourly incremental backups to an external USB drive.  That was unbox, install drives, configure network and security, download backup app and configure notifications.  The entire unit is under warranty and it just works.  Many of the newer units also work with manufacturer cloud services to make secure configuration of remote file access an extremely simple task.
Rolling your own NAS by comparison is a headache most people don't need when such reliable compact cost effective options are available.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2013, 10:30:55 pm »

Jonathan, this approach is totally unworkable for 99+% of the home user population, both for cost and complexity.  In my experience, hardware failures are the minor component of data loss.

I am an IT guy by day, and support a couple $xxx,xxx SANs.  They fail too.

I am on my second Netgear ReadyNAS pro (speed and capacity upgrades, not failures) at home, and I've been running them since 2006.  I've installed several others in consulting work.  I have found them to be well made, fast, and so far very reliable.  You do, of course, need to always have multiple copies of your data, but I have found the ReadyNAS boxes to be a good balance between cost, good build quality, and features.  They do cost significantly more than $100, if that makes you feel better.

Many discussions like these have a lot in common with mixer threads - some folks are thrilled to get an X32, others need a CL5.  What's right for most home users with 30GB of stolen MP3s and cell-phone pictures is very different than a professional content creator - both in quantity and value of the data.

Tommy,
My daytime gig requires that I work at an expert level with most of the largest storage arrays in the world, so I've been watching this thread with some interest. I'll side with TJ, and let me tell you why.
 
NAS is an abused acronym for network attached storage commonly used incorrectly by anyone who can spew those letters. Your need is for basic remote storage of family files that need to be accessed easily, and kept safe from loss.
 
Do you actually have a network in your house? Or do you have a number of systems which access the web through your providers router? If you're going the NAS route you need to understand more than what's being talked about in this thread, and for your case there is no need to do so.
 
I suggest you change your line of thought and think more in the way of shared storage. Shared storage is the basis for all networks, the simple repository designed to house and share files among two or more people.
 
Thinking along those lines will lead you to a simple multi use solution built upon an easily maintained low cost desktop system running Windows 7. You'll need;
 
1ea. desktop system of your choice running Windows 7. The workstation should have 2ea Seagate or Hitachi 15K SATA drives configured for RAID 1, a wired connection to your router for access to WWW, a wireless adapter for family members to attach to the workstation with using their laptops, a CD/DVD ROM that can also be shared, and an inexpensive 20" monitor.
 
What you've created is a mini server capable of sharing data from any device attached to it including CDs and thumb drives that is as fault tolerant as any "NAS" device you can buy at THIS level. This solution is flexible and serves a multi purpose role.
 
I would not back up my data to anything on the web. I use a Seagate external drive attached to the desktop I am using right now and use Acronis true image for the control software. This one system backs up the data for itself, 3 laptops, my MIDI systems, and my recording systems.
 
I would not use anything with the initials WD on it.
The total cost of this solution should be less than $750 with all the bells and whistles. I don't know if that's your budget, but it's the correct solution for your needs.
 
If this still doesn't float your boat and you've won the lottery PM me and I'll set you up with NAS from one of these guys.
http://www.emc.com/storage/index.htm#Featured-Products
 
http://web.emc.com/datadomaindeduplication?cmp=knc-BRS_Divisional-data_domain-datadomain-USA&activity_id=196822&division=brs&gclid=CIaDgMXtvbsCFcVQ7AoddhwABQ
 
http://www.emc.com/domains/isilon/index.htm
 
http://www.netapp.com/us/products/storage-systems/
 
http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/ibmnetefami
 
 And this one is for Mac.
 
http://www.emc.com/collateral/software/solution-overview/h10585-isilon-media-and-entertainment-so.pdf
 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 10:35:37 pm by Bob Leonard »
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2013, 11:41:12 pm »


Tommy,
My daytime gig requires that I work at an expert level with most of the largest storage arrays in the world, so I've been watching this thread with some interest. I'll side with TJ, and let me tell you why.
 
NAS is an abused acronym for network attached storage commonly used incorrectly by anyone who can spew those letters. Your need is for basic remote storage of family files that need to be accessed easily, and kept safe from loss.
 
Do you actually have a network in your house? Or do you have a number of systems which access the web through your providers router? If you're going the NAS route you need to understand more than what's being talked about in this thread, and for your case there is no need to do so.
 
I suggest you change your line of thought and think more in the way of shared storage. Shared storage is the basis for all networks, the simple repository designed to house and share files among two or more people.
 
Thinking along those lines will lead you to a simple multi use solution built upon an easily maintained low cost desktop system running Windows 7. You'll need;
 
1ea. desktop system of your choice running Windows 7. The workstation should have 2ea Seagate or Hitachi 15K SATA drives configured for RAID 1, a wired connection to your router for access to WWW, a wireless adapter for family members to attach to the workstation with using their laptops, a CD/DVD ROM that can also be shared, and an inexpensive 20" monitor.
 
What you've created is a mini server capable of sharing data from any device attached to it including CDs and thumb drives that is as fault tolerant as any "NAS" device you can buy at THIS level. This solution is flexible and serves a multi purpose role.
 
I would not back up my data to anything on the web. I use a Seagate external drive attached to the desktop I am using right now and use Acronis true image for the control software. This one system backs up the data for itself, 3 laptops, my MIDI systems, and my recording systems.
 
I would not use anything with the initials WD on it.
The total cost of this solution should be less than $750 with all the bells and whistles. I don't know if that's your budget, but it's the correct solution for your needs.

Thanks for the info Bob, I was hoping you'd chime in.

Unfortunately right now a full computer isn't in the budget though I fully agree that a computer is the best option. I wish one of the 2 old machines we have laying around would work but they're too old to run Win7 and don't have SATA on the motherboard(I think they're approaching 10(possibly more) years old. While they would run FreeNAS getting drives for them would be hard in not impossible; not to mention they're SLOW.

Anyway, I think, in order to keep costs down, we're going to get a normal (Seagate) external drive and a new router/WAP(Asus) that has a USB port and can host the USB drive. The router I found is highly rated on Amazon and several tech review publications/websites; it also can act as a DLNA certified media server to any media files on an attached drive.

The main reason for going this route is to keep the cost around $200 which is all we can swing right now. Any of the "good" NAS drives mentioned above were at least $300 by the time you bought 1 drive and to get the advantage of RAID with 2+ drives they were $400+. While the router + USB hdd solution won't be as fast or feature packed as the other options I'm pretty sure it'll do the job for us.

If anyone has more input let me know, I'll probably be placing the order tomorrow so I can get it by Christmas.


Thanks and Merry Christmas,
Tommy

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2013, 08:01:18 am »

That should work fine Tommy as long as the router allows file access to the disk. The disk is a perfect choice, and it's actually the same disk I use as described above. If all else fails you haven't wasted any money and can eventually attach a cheap desktop to the router.

I you want to scale down the desktop leave out the RAID drives, stay at about 8gb RAM and you're all set to go. You'll be backing up the system using the Seagate external drive and this is a system that can suffer some down time anyway.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2013, 09:45:04 am »

That should work fine Tommy as long as the router allows file access to the disk. The disk is a perfect choice, and it's actually the same disk I use as described above. If all else fails you haven't wasted any money and can eventually attach a cheap desktop to the router.

I you want to scale down the desktop leave out the RAID drives, stay at about 8gb RAM and you're all set to go. You'll be backing up the system using the Seagate external drive and this is a system that can suffer some down time anyway.

Great to hear. The router does have disk access via SMB and FTP; I think it even let's you setup accounts for individual users though we'll probably just use a single "public" account to keep it simple.

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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drew gandy

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2013, 01:00:29 am »

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is power.  I've been hesitant to put together (another) pc based server for handling this kind of thing at least partly because of the amount of power that would be constantly drawn by a running computer.  That said, I am currently running an older macbook pro as a "server" of sorts and I actually have a VPN setup on my Asus router so that this computer can backup over the net to another computer at another location.  Which brings me to the comment made earlier about setting up a NAS box at a friend or family house.  I think this idea is near perfect.  You avoid keeping your stuff on a cloud service in some anonymous place in the world and when you need files quickly they are stored on the local NAS.  Now, I'm talking about cheap single drive NAS devices [and yes Bob, I'm using the term liberally].  With this type of setup I wouldn't be too concerned about dual drive redundancy.  And I think the idea of using a router, which is going to be on 24/7 anyway, is a great idea.  The newer routers seem to be getting pretty powerful on their own so performance might be decent too.  Do the latest Asus routers support usb3 yet for external storage? 
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2013, 01:21:39 am »

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is power.  I've been hesitant to put together (another) pc based server for handling this kind of thing at least partly because of the amount of power that would be constantly drawn by a running computer.  That said, I am currently running an older macbook pro as a "server" of sorts and I actually have a VPN setup on my Asus router so that this computer can backup over the net to another computer at another location.  Which brings me to the comment made earlier about setting up a NAS box at a friend or family house.  I think this idea is near perfect.  You avoid keeping your stuff on a cloud service in some anonymous place in the world and when you need files quickly they are stored on the local NAS.  Now, I'm talking about cheap single drive NAS devices [and yes Bob, I'm using the term liberally].  With this type of setup I wouldn't be too concerned about dual drive redundancy.  And I think the idea of using a router, which is going to be on 24/7 anyway, is a great idea.  The newer routers seem to be getting pretty powerful on their own so performance might be decent too.

That's an interesting idea, I may have to look into it in the future.
Quote
Do the latest Asus routers support usb3 yet for external storage?
I believe that their top end models do have USB 3 though the one I bought is just USB 2. I doubt it will make a huge difference in my application as most of the access will be over wifi. I just didn't want to pay almost twice as much to get USB 3. :-)

Sent from my Nexus 4 running OmniROM 4.4 KitKat using Tapatalk Pro

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Bob Leonard

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Re: Home Network Attached Storage device
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2013, 02:30:08 am »

Tommy,
You might be interested to know that one of my systems, the one I'm using now, was attacked by a rather nasty virus Christmas eve. I know where the virus came from, and I know what the virus is. I also know that even the 3 virus and malware programs I run wouldn't touch it, and that from past experience in the corporate world this particular threat is above serious. My decision was to roll back my system using the software and hardware I described above. I booted from the recovery CD and performed a sector by sector reimage of my system. 2 1/2 hours later the system is like new and the virus gone.
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