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[Lee Buckalew]

Thanks, Lee.  I'll give that a shot.  It's always handy to know how to navigate these things...if only in self-defense.  I'm a great fan of having the keys players keep their output maxed out so they can't make it hotter once we've started.  I'll give them more in the monitor upon request, but I like to minimize the potential surprises.  And if I can go in and "fix it in the box", that's a plus.

Agreed, same reason I'd rather use a pad at the console than rely on one at the DI.

Lee

[Bob L. Wilson]

Agreed, same reason I'd rather use a pad at the console than rely on one at the DI.

Lee

I keep some Shure A15AS  adjustable attenuators in my bag for mystery gigs.

[Mike Maly]

One thing to caution about having the keyboard volume all the way up: it is possible for the keyboard itself distort at its' output. I have this issue with an old Yamaha S90 that the player and I have found a spot on the volume slider that won't distort the keyboard outputs. I've also noticed that Korg keyboards are prone to this also. My wife plays a Korg Krome 88 and the volume can't go over 3/4 without distorting its' output, padded DI or not.


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[Keith Broughton]

The input trim and a pad are there to limit the incoming signal, a DI will NOT do that unless you use the pad on the DI.  The 1/4" output of the keyboard may be lower than the XLR but usually only by the difference in differential gain so, about 6dBu. 

The whole point of the OPs post was that the console input gains and pads (or lack thereof on an LS9) DO NOT control the signal sufficiently in this instance!
Using the 1/4 out is not about the level of the output of the keyboard as much as it is about the output level of the DI.
I would think the XLR outs of this keyboard are MUCH higher than 6db compared to that of the DI even if the pads are off.
Although, if the 6db lower signal stops the clipping, problem solved.
Reducing the level in the software of the keyboard makes the most sense, in this case.
However, a 12 db reduction may still leave you with a fairly "hot" input gain.
But there are other cases...
I have run into this problem with DJs that drive the crap out of their mixers and overload the XLR in on the console.
No amount of pad or gain reduction stops the clipping.
They don't seem to have the "speed" control you allude to in your car scenario.
A DI or inline pad solves this problem.

Same problem when bringing broadcast level signals to the XLR inputs of the console.
+4 is too much and I'm not about to tell the truck to change levels (speed) for me.
An inline XLR pad solves this problem.

I have also had this issue with the outputs of conference systems when returning to an XLR on the console.

It used to be that consoles had XLR and 1/4 TRS returns that addressed this kind of problem.
Now, with the "do it all" inputs, some kind of levelling may need to be done before the console and should protect from user "speed" selection.

[Jacob Robinson]

I will first try to adjust the outputs within the keyboard first, because I do think I am getting some distortion right off the keyboard.  Honestly, I didn't even consider that until I read it here.  Also it is a must that the input gain on the console to be set with the volume knob at 100%.  Thanks for the replies, I will do some tinkering and see what happens.

[Bob L. Wilson]

One thing to caution about having the keyboard volume all the way up: it is possible for the keyboard itself distort at its' output. I have this issue with an old Yamaha S90 that the player and I have found a spot on the volume slider that won't distort the keyboard outputs. I've also noticed that Korg keyboards are prone to this also. My wife plays a Korg Krome 88 and the volume can't go over 3/4 without distorting its' output, padded DI or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is a solid point. I have worked with a Yamaha Clavinova at a local PAC that the manager and I ended up disassembling and adding a resistor to the volume sliders signal path so that all the way up would stay below the breakup point on the units circuitry. Value of the resistor was determined by tried and true, trial and error, but the entire job still took less than two hours start to finish. Crazy thing is players regularly remark on how loud that old Yamaha piano is, as now the FOH and monitor engineers can step on the keys without fear of the player pushing the signal chain into breakup. Inverse Spinal Tap! This one goes to "8"!

[Lee Buckalew]

The whole point of the OPs post was that the console input gains and pads (or lack thereof on an LS9) DO NOT control the signal sufficiently in this instance!.

I have run into this problem with DJs that drive the crap out of their mixers and overload the XLR in on the console.
No amount of pad or gain reduction stops the clipping.

Same problem when bringing broadcast level signals to the XLR inputs of the console.
+4 is too much and I'm not about to tell the truck to change levels (speed) for me.
An inline XLR pad solves this problem.

It used to be that consoles had XLR and 1/4 TRS returns that addressed this kind of problem.
Now, with the "do it all" inputs, some kind of levelling may need to be done before the console and should protect from user "speed" selection.

First, the OP did not say they had tried a pad on the console input but, I just checked and the LS9 does not have a switchable pad.  I am not on one often enough, I thought it did.  The channels will take +30dBu before clip though.

DJ's often drive very hot signals.  A 20dB pad at a DI is the same as a 20dB pad on a channel strip.  Saying that no amount of pad on the channel strip has any effect can't be correct.  It may not have enough of a reduction but it will have an effect.  Some DI's do give you 40dB worth of pads by stacking.  I still prefer to have the pads at the console end whenever possible so the performer can not change them.

I've never run into a broadcast console that can send me too much with a pad engaged on a channel or with a very wide range pre.

In the end, as long as it gets padded down it does not ultimately matter where it happens as long as it does happen and it does not get changed once its set.

Lee

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