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Author Topic: Soundcraft price drop  (Read 3487 times)

Ronnie.Reels

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 03:13:04 pm »


I did have one visiting sound tech that used my soundcraft to run his band get upset because the eq display did not stay up showing a graphical display of his changes. As you make adjustments it shows on screen then goes away. States on x32 it gives you a visual display. I stated the frequency's are written right on faders what is the issue. How did you manage on analog board. Lol.  ::)

If you just push the "EQ' button on menu screen the graph stays on top all the time.
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John Chiara

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2013, 03:40:06 pm »

I've used a few X32's. Everyone had a problem. They were pretty terrible to me.


Well I look at it this way:

Berhinger has never been known for it's "quality". Sure it's a little better than years past. But with the X32 you get:

Berhinger EQ's
Berhinger Comp's
Berhinger Gate etc. etc. etc.
Not exactly what I would call high quality. There might be a little collaboration with Midas but I believe the only Midas feature is the mic pre's.

Soundcraft you get:

Bss Eq's
dbx Comp's
dbx Gates
Lexicon Effects

HHHMM. Some of the leaders in the business known for their quality.

In the Soundcraft you get emulations of those processors. I am sure they are great.Same with the X32. And it's graphics I am sure are KT emulations...not exactly slouches in the graphic eq world.
I have used tons of analog boards and processors over the last 40 years, and I don't have any problem getting the X32 to give me a satisfactory result. And I believe the FX in the X32 are really cool because they are not just one companies emulation. I love Lexicon reverbs for some things but not all. I much prefer other companies delays to Lexicon for my mixing styles. I think for most of us it IS feature driven. I NEED DCA's to do my thing. Can't do that on a Presonus.
Can't do a proper iPad mix in my setup without DCA's or some others.
I am sure all these boards can make fine mixes. We all choose what we like best. We don't all drive black Model T's either.
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Jeff Carter

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Re: Expression EQ shelving only on Hi, Lo?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2013, 03:54:37 pm »

It looks like the PEQ on the Expressions for the Low and High bands is shelving only. That is, you cannot set it to bell-shaped for those frequency bands. Is that correct?

If that is true, has anyone found that to be a significant limitation?

I believe they're shelving only. For what it's worth, the outer two PEQ bands on the console I normally work with (GLD) can do peaks, HPF/LPF or shelving and I prefer shelving.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Expression EQ shelving only on Hi, Lo?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2013, 04:07:19 pm »

It looks like the PEQ on the Expressions for the Low and High bands is shelving only. That is, you cannot set it to bell-shaped for those frequency bands. Is that correct?

If that is true, has anyone found that to be a significant limitation?

Gordon,
I'm pretty well known for my need to have the best sound possible, regardless of board. My step into digital was taken from an APB Pro House, boards known very well for their "tone" if you will.
 
When comparing boards over the past couple of years I took anything that couldn't compare with the APB off of my list, end of subject, if it doesn't sound as good then why bother. My short list left me with choices in the $10,000 region. I would gladly pay that sum had digital been a choice earlier in life, but at this point as I wind down 10K didn't make much sense so I decided to wait for the next round of digital releases. That would bring the X32 and the Expression.
 
Those of us who have been around for a long while usually don't care much about the number of knobs the channel EQ has to offer as long as the EQ does it's job. There is no significant advantage to having a swept upper and lower channel EQ, as long as the EQ is designed properly to begin with. It becomes even less significant when the channel strip is also equipped with an active low pass filter. To me the critical range of the EQ is the upper and lower MID sections. This is where 90% of your adjustment will be made, this is where you'll control feedback, the thump of the kick, tone of a B3, etc..
 
Soundcraft has used the same channel strip EQ on most of their desks, regardless of price, since the intro of the S1 in 1975. It is by far one of the most effective designs I have ever worked with and one of the very reasons the Soundcraft boards are some of the best sounding boards available today.
 
People constantly state that board XYZ is a better board because it has the feature of upper and lower swept EQ. To me that would illustrate a lack of real world experience. Once you've used a Soundcraft channel strip EQ you'll understand just how unimportant those additional two knobs can be, at least if the EQ is, as I said above, designed correctly, and Soundcraft has had over 40 years time to get it right.
 
Also as stated above, the EQ graph is fully visible from the setup screen by pushing the mystery button on the screen, which Soundcraft has cleverly disguised by calling it "EQ". 
 
And if the channel EQ isn't enough there are additional EQ's for every channel and output designed by BSS.
 
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2013, 04:24:28 pm »

In the Soundcraft you get emulations of those processors. I am sure they are great.Same with the X32. And it's graphics I am sure are KT emulations...not exactly slouches in the graphic eq world.
I have used tons of analog boards and processors over the last 40 years, and I don't have any problem getting the X32 to give me a satisfactory result. And I believe the FX in the X32 are really cool because they are not just one companies emulation. I love Lexicon reverbs for some things but not all. I much prefer other companies delays to Lexicon for my mixing styles. I think for most of us it IS feature driven. I NEED DCA's to do my thing. Can't do that on a Presonus.
Can't do a proper iPad mix in my setup without DCA's or some others.
I am sure all these boards can make fine mixes. We all choose what we like best. We don't all drive black Model T's either.

We provide sound and lights for a local small venue. A band came in one day and insisted that they use their X32. The ONLY thing that changed was the mixer. Even the club owner came over and said, "What happened to the sound?" We did all we could to mix the sound better to no avail. We never could achieve the sound quality we had with the other mixer. Although it would have been a bit easier if the meters were working properly.    The band said they were bad right out of the box.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 04:35:10 pm »

In the Soundcraft you get emulations of those processors. I am sure they are great.Same with the X32. And it's graphics I am sure are KT emulations...not exactly slouches in the graphic eq world.
I have used tons of analog boards and processors over the last 40 years, and I don't have any problem getting the X32 to give me a satisfactory result. And I believe the FX in the X32 are really cool because they are not just one companies emulation. I love Lexicon reverbs for some things but not all. I much prefer other companies delays to Lexicon for my mixing styles. I think for most of us it IS feature driven. I NEED DCA's to do my thing. Can't do that on a Presonus.
Can't do a proper iPad mix in my setup without DCA's or some others.
I am sure all these boards can make fine mixes. We all choose what we like best. We don't all drive black Model T's either.

Sorry John, but the Soundcraft boards all use the same chip set up to the Vi. There is no emulation. The X32 has channel strips, etc. that Midas assisted in designing, they are not Midas channel strips. Regardless though, there's no need to split hairs.
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dick rees

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 04:43:54 pm »

We provide sound and lights for a local small venue. A band came in one day and insisted that they use their X32. The ONLY thing that changed was the mixer. Even the club owner came over and said, "What happened to the sound?" We did all we could to mix the sound better to no avail. We never could achieve the sound quality we had with the other mixer. Although it would have been a bit easier if the meters were working properly.    The band said they were bad right out of the box.

There are an awful lot of things "hidden" inside digital consoles which can color or compromise the output.  Best practice would be to start from scratch each venue, but it would seem likely that they had either the previous gig settings going on or an aggregation of various settings/fixes clogging things up.

I helped a friend set up a "loaner" X32 for a theater gig, his desk having been sent back in for replacement as it was BOB.  I took my StudioLive with the "baby SMAART" so we could check the outputs of the various zoned speakers and tweak them.

The loaner had so many things screwed this way and that that there were huge holes in the sound.  Bypassing the X32 entirely removed all the anomalies.  Re-initializing the desk took care of the problems.

Lesson:

Zero out that thing before you put it into use on a new system.   
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 05:03:23 pm »

I've used a few X32's. Everyone had a problem. They were pretty terrible to me.


Well I look at it this way:

Berhinger has never been known for it's "quality". Sure it's a little better than years past. But with the X32 you get:

Berhinger EQ's
Berhinger Comp's
Berhinger Gate etc. etc. etc.
Not exactly what I would call high quality. There might be a little collaboration with Midas but I believe the only Midas feature is the mic pre's.

Soundcraft you get:

Bss Eq's
dbx Comp's
dbx Gates
Lexicon Effects

HHHMM. Some of the leaders in the business known for their quality.

I'd submit that with the X32 you get

Klark Teknik gates
Klark Teknik compressors
Klark Teknik DN-405 parametric EQ
EFX that sound pretty good (the reverbs and delays that I've used so far).

Jamin, I *really* wanted to hate this mixer.  I wanted it to be the big stinking pile of dog doo that some other Behringer products have proven to be.

At this point, it's not.

Over at Soundforums.net there is an 8000 post thread of the X32 (ironically started by Rob Spence, who hasn't bought an X32).  Most of the issues and problems early in the thread were dealt with quickly and publicly by the manufacturer.  The lingering question of ESD, the S16 remote box and X32 has been answered by Brian Wynn and it's back in Behry's lap to deal with the long term part of it.  In the mean time using the specified cable with Ethercon shells seems to be the solution.

As for the progression of this thread since I start this reply, I can also say that I've heard DiGiCo SD7, Avid Venue and X32 all directly driving our systems (no intervening mixer or processing) and have heard nothing in the 'sound' of the X32 that was wrong.  Again, I wanted to find something bad to laugh about, but couldn't.  I even posted one of my FOH Du Jour threads about it (pic of the DiGiCo, X32 and Venue in the FOH pit).  Not a damn thing wrong with the audio from the X32.  I see them more and more driving band IEM rigs that used to have LS9-32 or SC48.  If it sucked, out of the box, the way you indicate, the LS9s would be back.  They aren't.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 05:50:04 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 06:41:03 pm »

I'd submit that with the X32 you get

Klark Teknik gates
Klark Teknik compressors
Klark Teknik DN-405 parametric EQ
EFX that sound pretty good (the reverbs and delays that I've used so far).

Jamin, I *really* wanted to hate this mixer.  I wanted it to be the big stinking pile of dog doo that some other Behringer products have proven to be.

At this point, it's not.

Over at Soundforums.net there is an 8000 post thread of the X32 (ironically started by Rob Spence, who hasn't bought an X32).  Most of the issues and problems early in the thread were dealt with quickly and publicly by the manufacturer.  The lingering question of ESD, the S16 remote box and X32 has been answered by Brian Wynn and it's back in Behry's lap to deal with the long term part of it.  In the mean time using the specified cable with Ethercon shells seems to be the solution.

As for the progression of this thread since I start this reply, I can also say that I've heard DiGiCo SD7, Avid Venue and X32 all directly driving our systems (no intervening mixer or processing) and have heard nothing in the 'sound' of the X32 that was wrong.  Again, I wanted to find something bad to laugh about, but couldn't.  I even posted one of my FOH Du Jour threads about it (pic of the DiGiCo, X32 and Venue in the FOH pit).  Not a damn thing wrong with the audio from the X32.  I see them more and more driving band IEM rigs that used to have LS9-32 or SC48.  If it sucked, out of the box, the way you indicate, the LS9s would be back.  They aren't.

According to their website it says the mic pre's are "genuine Midas". But it only says everything else was "developed in partnership with KT for the Berhinger X32." Nowhere does it say they are KT.

At least Soundcraft says they are if fact dbx, BSS, Lexicon ect.

I make purchases based on my own personal experiences. Not what I read on a review. So far all my experiences with the X32 have been not good.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 07:07:47 pm by Jamin Lynch »
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Expression EQ shelving only on Hi, Lo?
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2013, 07:02:27 pm »

It looks like the PEQ on the Expressions for the Low and High bands is shelving only. That is, you cannot set it to bell-shaped for those frequency bands. Is that correct?

If that is true, has anyone found that to be a significant limitation?
Lately I have been working on the SI and yes the high and low EQ are shelving with frequency adjustment.  It has not been a problem at all because you have a separate adjustable low cut.  I am very quickly able to ring out a mic using just the CH EQ and have it sound good.  Certainly plenty for a band.  IF I need more EQ then every mix buss has another set of the same EQ as the CH strip along with a 30 band graphic.  For a difficult corporate gig I could see burning a mix buss to get the extra EQ if needed.
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