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Author Topic: Soundcraft price drop  (Read 15092 times)

David J. Thomas

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2013, 08:16:54 PM »

As befitting any Soundcraft digital mixer, Si Expression boards give you extensive facilities and legendary audio quality, courtesy of the cutting-edge EMMA DSP processor - the same DSP platform that has helped rocket previous Soundcraft Si series consoles to stardom. With prodigious processing power, bulletproof reliability, impressive flexibility, amazing ease of use, and a surprisingly friendly price tag, Si Expression mixers are an outstanding value. Exactly what you'd expect from Soundcraft.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2013, 08:19:20 PM »

According to their website it says the mic pre's are "genuine Midas". But it only says everything else was "developed in partnership with KT for the Berhinger X32." Nowhere does it say they are KT.

At least Soundcraft says they are if fact dbx, BSS, Lexicon ect.

I make purchases based on my own personal experiences. Not what I read on a review. So far all my experiences with the X32 have been not good.

I'd submit that the amount of original Lexicon code inside an Si series mixer is about the same as original KT design in the X32.  How much analog BSS gate/comp got stuffed inside?  About the same as KT's *analog* got put in the X32.  It's all marketing; I'd guess that the amount of either brand's flagship designs inserted into the value products is minimal.

As a dealer for the brand you espouse a preference for, I'd expect you to like the Soundcraft.  I'd be surprised if you didn't.

I have a neutral opinion of the Si/Expression series as I've only mixed on them a couple of times.  My boss is FOH mixerperson for a national/international act and absolutely HATES them.  But he likes the Studio Live for doing weekend bands when he's not out, so go figure.  He could have any desk in our shop and he picked (and bought) an SL24 for himself.

I don't know why you hear things other don't, and like JR, I'm not about to tell you what you think you hear.  I will say, however, that unless you set a desk up from scratch (freshly loaded with firmware) you can be in the position that Dick Rees describes and never know the problem is inside the desk, a result of another person's tomfoolery.

I've heard multiple X32s on our rigs, right between other higher priced and well regarded mixers and didn't hear anything that make me go "yeah, this thing sucks, hehehehehe."  And like I said, I *Really* wanted it to suck.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 08:23:17 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2013, 08:19:39 PM »

As befitting any Soundcraft digital mixer, Si Expression boards give you extensive facilities and legendary audio quality, courtesy of the cutting-edge EMMA DSP processor - the same DSP platform that has helped rocket previous Soundcraft Si series consoles to stardom. With prodigious processing power, bulletproof reliability, impressive flexibility, amazing ease of use, and a surprisingly friendly price tag, Si Expression mixers are an outstanding value. Exactly what you'd expect from Soundcraft.

Thank you for the stunning piece of marketing spew.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Mac Kerr

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2013, 08:29:30 PM »

As befitting any Soundcraft digital mixer, Si Expression boards give you extensive facilities and legendary audio quality, courtesy of the cutting-edge EMMA DSP processor - the same DSP platform that has helped rocket previous Soundcraft Si series consoles to stardom. With prodigious processing power, bulletproof reliability, impressive flexibility, amazing ease of use, and a surprisingly friendly price tag, Si Expression mixers are an outstanding value. Exactly what you'd expect from Soundcraft.

Seriously?

Shouldn't you have put quote marks around that?

Mac
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2013, 09:27:53 PM »

The X32, Experssion Si, and Qu-16 are all very good digital mixers.  If you can't make them sound good, it isn't the mixer.  It is you.

I have on one rig my X32 Rack.  The other is my MixWiz, Presonus ACP88, and TC Electronics M-OneXL (I have also had the Lexicon MPX550 and borrowed a friends PCM96).

With a simple raw pass through, both mixers sound great (so much for the hype about preamps).

The compressors on the X32 are by far better than the ACP88's, and the verbs and delays in the X32 are better than my M-OneXL with the verbs being on-par with the PCM96 to my ears.

I have played with both the Expression Si and Qu-16, but only in the store.  Both of these units also have very good internal efx and channel processing.

I also agree with Bob that you can't get too carried away with feature XYZ with respect to sound quality.  Is it really that important to have a fully parametric channel eq?  I seem to recall quite a few great sounding gigs with my MixWiz with only 2 sweepable mids per channel at my disposal ;)

I would also like to re-itterate what Dick said and also expand on this point.  The X32 is by far the most configurable mixer of this bunch; however, this comes at a price.

The X32 is also the easiest mixer of this bunch to get hosed up due to poor routing and poor settings.

There is something to be said about having your mixer be more difficult to get wrong.  This is especially true if you are doing this for a living and are constantly configuring and re-configuring your mixer for different situations.

To the original subject, I think it is a great thing that we are able to get such great digital mixers for such a low price.

For years I have longed for the capabilities and sound quality I have heard bands that are using an LS9 had .... but alas, the price would have been enough to send me and my family on a very nice vacation .... and my band is simply a hobby, not a money maker at all.

Thanks to the likes of early mixers like the StudioLive and now the X32, Qu-16 and Expression Si, almost anyone can afford to have this level of sound quality and features.

I think it is a good time to be in the market for a digital mixer.
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John Chiara

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2013, 01:05:56 AM »

I think it is not really useful to anyone shopping for a mixer to talk about how we can "let" a digital mixer be too hard to use. I would assume that if I was going to buy a mixer, I would learn how to use it. Good lord.....it's not like anyone's intellect is too limited to figure out how to make use of a full 4 band parametric or DCA's. As I have told many people...the big time professional boards have more features not less. If you can get more for the same money how is that bad... Or worse yet, worth discouraging.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2013, 07:04:35 AM »

I'd submit that the amount of original Lexicon code inside an Si series mixer is about the same as original KT design in the X32.  How much analog BSS gate/comp got stuffed inside?  About the same as KT's *analog* got put in the X32.  It's all marketing; I'd guess that the amount of either brand's flagship designs inserted into the value products is minimal.

As a dealer for the brand you espouse a preference for, I'd expect you to like the Soundcraft.  I'd be surprised if you didn't.

I have a neutral opinion of the Si/Expression series as I've only mixed on them a couple of times.  My boss is FOH mixerperson for a national/international act and absolutely HATES them.  But he likes the Studio Live for doing weekend bands when he's not out, so go figure.  He could have any desk in our shop and he picked (and bought) an SL24 for himself.

I don't know why you hear things other don't, and like JR, I'm not about to tell you what you think you hear.  I will say, however, that unless you set a desk up from scratch (freshly loaded with firmware) you can be in the position that Dick Rees describes and never know the problem is inside the desk, a result of another person's tomfoolery.

I've heard multiple X32s on our rigs, right between other higher priced and well regarded mixers and didn't hear anything that make me go "yeah, this thing sucks, hehehehehe."  And like I said, I *Really* wanted it to suck.

Sorry, I'm still not convinced.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 07:43:20 AM by Jamin Lynch »
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John Chiara

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2013, 11:04:42 AM »

Sorry, I'm still not convinced.

Come to one of my shows.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2013, 11:31:17 AM »

I think it is not really useful to anyone shopping for a mixer to talk about how we can "let" a digital mixer be too hard to use. I would assume that if I was going to buy a mixer, I would learn how to use it. Good lord.....it's not like anyone's intellect is too limited to figure out how to make use of a full 4 band parametric or DCA's. As I have told many people...the big time professional boards have more features not less. If you can get more for the same money how is that bad... Or worse yet, worth discouraging.
I tend to agree with you, but then I like new things and love learning new and better ways of doing things.

For those who are less comfortable learning new things, the "DigiLog" desks might be more attractive despite having fewer features and less flexibility.

Still, I find it hard to see how anyone could be upset about Soundcraft dropping its price even if it is due to the X32 competition.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2013, 11:36:47 AM »

Come to one of my shows.

Hey, that's a good idea.

We ought to have an independent, unbiased PSW person go around to various shows from as many LAB Loungers as feasible and report back.  ;D

Putting all the other stuff aside. Now since most of these consoles are relatively the same price, it all comes down to personal preference. I like what I bought, you like what you bought.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 12:12:57 PM by Jamin Lynch »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Soundcraft price drop
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2013, 11:36:47 AM »


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