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Author Topic: VRX Line Array  (Read 50244 times)

Art Welter

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2014, 10:38:43 AM »

+1   The VRX has 3 HF drivers, each splayed at 5 deg, giving you 15 deg per cabinet.   When you take the curve out of the system, the path of the bottom HF driver is going to cross the path of the top HF driver of the box underneath pretty quickly.   As you move out from the array, all HF drivers in the array will begin to run into each other.
Correct, there will be some vertical HF interference created by the overlap between the straight array elements.
This would be evident as you move forward or backward from the array.
It would be a trade off between the usual six cabinet VRX dilemma of pointing HF uselessly in to the air (or ceiling) or floor.

It would be less of a concern to me than the built in mid range interference already created by the side by side placement of the HF horn and the LF driver.

That arrangement, by design, guarantees comb filtering (off-axis mid range suck out) in the horizontal coverage in the critical crossover frequency region.

My primary concern would be whether the rigging piece is certified for the same (or greater) loads as the JBL product carries.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2014, 10:58:08 AM »

It is amazing to me that with all the advancements we have in all areas of audio (recording-loudspeakers-processing etc), I feel the overall quality of audio that is heard by the average person is worse than in years past.  I could be wrong-but that is my gut feeling.

I agree with you.  Despite many decades of advancements in sound recording technology, some of the nicest sounding records are those from RCA and Columbia, particularly those recorded under Chet Atkins' supervision (not necessarily with him playing).

It's the same in the photographic world.  Convenience seem to win over quality now (I say that as someone who uses film in many formats).


Steve.
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John Chiara

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2014, 12:38:46 PM »

There are a couple of "issues" here.

I do agree that it doesn't matter how good a particular loudspeaker is- if it cannot be heard.

But trying to simply add more loudspeakers to get louder is not the right approach.

You should be using the correct tool for the job. 

But trying to "excuse" sound quality for quantity does not work for me.  If you need more output-you should be using a stronger product.

How much does the sound degrade by doing this?  It depends on the listener.  Some people like the "mush" and think that it is "correct" based on their experience.

Some people will really hate it.

The level of "acceptance" of sound quality is quite wide.  Just look at all the bad audio we experience-compressed MP3s-overdriven sound systems of all sorts-computer speakers etc.

It is amazing to me that with all the advancements we have in all areas of audio (recording-loudspeakers-processing etc), I feel the overall quality of audio that is heard by the average person is worse than in years past.  I could be wrong-but that is my gut feeling.

So people are willing to accept lower "standards".

Of course products like the one in question do not help matters-deliberately sacrificing sound quality for quantity.

I dont think it is so much a matter of acceptance as many buyers do not have enough audio expertise to tell the difference or comment if they do tell. Plus with so much available to so many providers I think a lot of it is just a basic lack of reference by operators. I go to many shows where the FOH mixer is on a computer or their cell phone especially during opening acts where things could be pulled together. In both live audio and musicians I see, there is a great deal of laziness and/or lack of passion. IMO if you don't want to give it 100% move over or stay home.
Plus, patrons of shows who will raise hell over a flat beer or an undercooked burger will NEVER complain to a vendor about bad sound.
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drew gandy

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2014, 08:47:04 PM »

Plus, patrons of shows who will raise hell over a flat beer or an undercooked burger will NEVER complain to a vendor about bad sound.

Well, a flat beer or undercooked burger are a lot easier to fix than bad sound. :)  Thank God they don't complain about the sound. 

As far as the splay adaptor, we don't really know if this is any worse than "stock" until we measure it.  I have a suspicion that it wouldn't be that bad (compared to stock).  As far as the safety, yeah, that could be another issue.   

My 2 cents. 
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Brad Weber

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2014, 10:23:40 AM »

As far as the splay adaptor, we don't really know if this is any worse than "stock" until we measure it.  I have a suspicion that it wouldn't be that bad (compared to stock).  As far as the safety, yeah, that could be another issue.
Except the VRX are a constant curvature array and not intended to be used the way this aftermarket adapter works, it's sort of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist (or possibly a solution that creates new problems).
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Jason Phair

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2014, 11:28:43 AM »

None of the JBL speakers that are designed to be flown have any weight transferred to the speaker enclosure.  All the rigging is metal to metal, and the enclosure attaches to the rigging.  Any enclosure can fail and the suspension will remain intact.

I do not know the weight limit for VRX rigging but VerTec is designed to hang >16 boxes.

Tim, I know you know it's 18.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2014, 01:37:26 PM »

Tim, I know you know it's 18.

Could be more, depending on the design factor, could be less if the local or other authorities require a greater safety margin.

The "16" number came out of my memory, and 16 is pretty much the most we put up in a single hang.  Convenient but not fully inclusive... ;)

The point is that each product family is designed to particular limits and deviating from those is ill-advised at best, particularly if one isn't intimately familiar with the actual design criteria, methods and materials used in the creation of the speaker system suspension.  While I don't want anyone harmed, it would not disappoint me to find this bullshit item fail catastrophically and lead to lawsuits.  This is the kind of stupid shit I routinely have to dispel among folks that see these kinds of things on ebay or a youtube video.  Trying to educate someone with no expertise in mechanical engineering, but who is easily influenced by a video or advertising, is a battle worthy of Don Quixote.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:43:56 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2014, 01:39:31 PM »

Could be more, depending on the design factor, could be less if the local or other authorities require a greater safety margin.

The "16" number came out of my memory, and 16 is pretty much the most we put up in a single hang.  Convenient but not fully inclusive... ;)
Depends which model you're talking about. 3 4883 + 12 4886 is the max for the little guys.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2014, 01:44:39 PM »

Depends which model you're talking about. 3 4883 + 12 4886 is the max for the little guys.

Since I fly 4889 most often, that was my reference.  YMMV, etc.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

drew gandy

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2014, 01:56:33 AM »

Except the VRX are a constant curvature array and not intended to be used the way this aftermarket adapter works, it's sort of a solution to a problem that doesn't exist (or possibly a solution that creates new problems).

I think my post was misunderstood and I'm not sure how to fix it. 

I'll try this and hope I don't make it worse. 

Brad, I know you've heard a VRX or 2 before.  I don't disagree with your reply but was aiming for something between:

A) VRX sound so bad to begin with that maybe this wouldn't really mess it up ;D

and
B) This isn't rocket surgery and there is a good chance that this thing WILL throw more lead vocal to the back of the room which I think is the intent of it.  Whether it combs your hair in the process might be irrelevant.  I see so many goofy ways of "doing sound" even from experienced sound dudes that this just seems like more of the same.  Further, until someone uses this arrangement (and takes valid measurements) we don't know for sure if it will be any worse than other "correct" solutions.  Every speaker has flaws (read, engineering compromises). 

Now that said, the safety aspect is definitely one to look at closely and I'm sure if a "problem" were to occur at an event, JBL would distance themselves from it very quickly.  This is not what they intended when they boxed up and shipped these speakers.  Of course we might also be able to argue that they brought it upon themselves by writing "Line Array" across the top of the cardboard box.  What do they expect people to do when they've got a "Line Array"?   ::)
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2014, 01:56:33 AM »


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