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Author Topic: VRX Line Array  (Read 50250 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2014, 04:25:06 PM »

Aside from all the coverage and interaction physics being right or wrong, isn't a box designed to only support so much weight underneath it?  I have never used a VRX but I would suspect that hanging another box from it would add more stress to the top boxes which would only be rated to hold enough to make the proper array.  As pointed out more boxes negates the tool.  Why would JBL design the enclosure for more hang such as the Vertec where you might want 4 boxes one show and 20 the next.  It seems like a waste of money to add that in to the VRX.  As I said I am unfamiliar with the rigging system so correct me if I am wrong.  I have seen many product specs that specifically say you can only array X amount underneath, I guess this is mostly point and shoot boxes though.

None of the JBL speakers that are designed to be flown have any weight transferred to the speaker enclosure.  All the rigging is metal to metal, and the enclosure attaches to the rigging.  Any enclosure can fail and the suspension will remain intact.

I do not know the weight limit for VRX rigging but VerTec is designed to hang >16 boxes.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2014, 10:59:06 PM »

None of the JBL speakers that are designed to be flown have any weight transferred to the speaker enclosure.  All the rigging is metal to metal, and the enclosure attaches to the rigging.  Any enclosure can fail and the suspension will remain intact.

I do not know the weight limit for VRX rigging but VerTec is designed to hang >16 boxes.

iirc VRX is rated for 6 boxes which gives you a full 90 degrees vertical. Or you can fly 4 VRX under 1 VRX sub. (might be 2 subs, but I'm a little fuzzy there.)
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Ray Aberle

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2014, 12:43:07 PM »

Perfect!

http://m.ebay.com/itm/181257604079

So just for kicks and giggles, I followed up with this person, and asked them, "Isn't this a silly item? I mean, wouldn't the VRX boxes then interfere with each other if they don't have the line array curve to it?"

He replied,

Quote from: joelj8hom
Thanks for the question. If you understand line array theory, which it sounds like you do, because the distance between the low frequency drivers, which are considered omni-directional, does not change, the polar response of those drivers is unaffected. If the StraightArray bracket increased the distance between the cabinets somehow (which it does not), lobing would occur at predictable frequencies. But this is not the case.
The high frequencies are the most likely to be affected. A constant curvature line array, such as the VRX, is an attempt (that works very well I might add) to create a monopole sound source. This creates a very coherent wave front at most, if not all of the high frequencies because there is no interaction between adjacent drivers. To create the best isophasic wave front, planar line arrays use lenses on the high frequency drivers to make it "look" like these drivers are as close to one another as possible (there is a lot more to it than that as you may know). The StraightArray bracket does change the angle between the cabinets and therefore changes the characteristics of the monopole configuration, but not a great deal. This may cause lobing at certain frequencies but it is not noticeable. Let’s face it, most rooms that systems are deployed in, due to reflections caused by ceilings, walls, column, etc., lobing occurs at various frequencies that we all have to deal with. The StraightArray bracket is designed to allow a sound professional to add cabinets to the hang so more SPLs can be produced to better cover the far-field audience members. Most small to midsized sound companies do not have the resources to spend $500,000 or more (elements and amplification) on a planar line array, which makes the StraightArray bracket a great solution when more power is needed.

I feel like Ivan would have a field day with this. :)
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2014, 12:55:28 PM »

So just for kicks and giggles, I followed up with this person, and asked them, "Isn't this a silly item? I mean, wouldn't the VRX boxes then interfere with each other if they don't have the line array curve to it?"

He replied,

I feel like Ivan would have a field day with this. :)
I actually don't have a huge problem with the intent here, and as a former owner of a constant-curve system (and a current owner of a "real" line array), certainly understand the draw of "more".  There will be some sound quality hit, but that may be (depending on how bad it really is, and I'm not qualified to comment) an acceptable tradeoff for more output.  IMO, the real issue here is the safety issues of the original design of the VRX rigging and the presumably non-engineered nature of this product.

I hope he (and the operators buying these) have good insurance.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2014, 03:35:40 PM »

So just for kicks and giggles, I followed up with this person, and asked them, "Isn't this a silly item?

Did you ask what it was made from?  The price indicates unobtanium with a seven micron coating of weapons grade balonium.


Steve.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2014, 04:58:43 PM »

Did you ask what it was made from?  The price indicates unobtanium with a seven micron coating of weapons grade balonium.


Steve.
While I'm not disagreeing with you that this is a BS and potentially dangerous product, the price doesn't seem too far out of line.  Check the price of any flyware for reference, not to mention the high cost of small runs of parts.
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James A. Griffin

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2014, 06:18:09 PM »

So just for kicks and giggles, I followed up with this person, and asked them, "Isn't this a silly item? I mean, wouldn't the VRX boxes then interfere with each other if they don't have the line array curve to it?"

He replied,

I feel like Ivan would have a field day with this. :)

I inquired as well and got the exact same answer.
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I need to determine where in this swamp of unbalanced formulas squatteth the Toad of Truth

Ray Aberle

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2014, 06:23:45 PM »

I inquired as well and got the exact same answer.
As in a copy-and-paste?!? Interesting...

I am not confident enough in my skills with line array technology to really repute any of his statements there, but why I asked what I did was just the basic thought that if you're having issues with enough coverage for the long-distance throw... perhaps you are using the wrong box in general.

Call me crazy?!?

-Ray
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James A. Griffin

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2014, 06:28:27 PM »

Eggsactly.

The VRX shouldn't be used as anything other than a fixed curve array. That's why JBL doesn't make angle adjustment hardware for the VRX. You want angels? Buy Vertec.

+1   The VRX has 3 HF drivers, each splayed at 5 deg, giving you 15 deg per cabinet.   When you take the curve out of the system, the path of the bottom HF driver is going to cross the path of the top HF driver of the box underneath pretty quickly.   As you move out from the array, all HF drivers in the array will begin to run into each other.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 06:35:08 PM by James A. Griffin »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2014, 06:53:07 PM »

So just for kicks and giggles, I followed up with this person, and asked them, "Isn't this a silly item? I mean, wouldn't the VRX boxes then interfere with each other if they don't have the line array curve to it?"

He replied,

I feel like Ivan would have a field day with this. :)
There are a couple of "issues" here.

I do agree that it doesn't matter how good a particular loudspeaker is- if it cannot be heard.

But trying to simply add more loudspeakers to get louder is not the right approach.

You should be using the correct tool for the job. 

But trying to "excuse" sound quality for quantity does not work for me.  If you need more output-you should be using a stronger product.

How much does the sound degrade by doing this?  It depends on the listener.  Some people like the "mush" and think that it is "correct" based on their experience.

Some people will really hate it.

The level of "acceptance" of sound quality is quite wide.  Just look at all the bad audio we experience-compressed MP3s-overdriven sound systems of all sorts-computer speakers etc.

It is amazing to me that with all the advancements we have in all areas of audio (recording-loudspeakers-processing etc), I feel the overall quality of audio that is heard by the average person is worse than in years past.  I could be wrong-but that is my gut feeling.

So people are willing to accept lower "standards".

Of course products like the one in question do not help matters-deliberately sacrificing sound quality for quantity.
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Ivan Beaver
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Re: VRX Line Array
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2014, 06:53:07 PM »


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