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Author Topic: Soundcraft Expression  (Read 13827 times)

Mac Kerr

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2015, 12:13:53 am »

Michael, my question is about word clock, not the madi connections.

Mac, in this case were talking a typical BNC wordclock.  I've just never had a reason to run that type of signal very far.  The soundcraft diagram shows FOH and Monitor consoles tied together.  My understanding is that there would be an awful lot of attenuation on say a 200' run.  Perhaps you've had similar requirements with other digital equipment?

This is really just hypothetical for my anyway.  I prefer to use a good old transformer split rather then sharing mic pre's between two consoles and messing with digital trim controls etc.

If you have to run WC, 200' should be no problem with RG59 75Ω coax. I don't know if there is an accepted spec for a maximum length, but I have run over 300' with a PM1D system.

Mac
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Michael Thompson

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2015, 12:23:05 am »

If you have to run WC, 200' should be no problem with RG59 75Ω coax. I don't know if there is an accepted spec for a maximum length, but I have run over 300' with a PM1D system.

Mac

Thanks Mac.  Now that I think about, that makes perfect sense.  I was thinking about attenuation at RF freq. and completely brain farting that word clock is nowhere near that.
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Michael Grimaila

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2015, 08:38:09 pm »

I have been using an Elite Core 200' Cat5e cable with Ethercon connectors....  I have a 300' on order and will let you know how it works out.

Here is a link to the cable:

http://www.churchaudiogear.net/200-ft-durable-cat5e-cable-with-neutrik-ethercon-rj45-to-standard-rj45-connector-aes50.html

Update: Last weekend I used the Elite Core 300' Cat5e cable with Ethercon connectors and it worked with my Expression 3 and Mini Stagebox 32 without any problems.  This cable has solid conductors which I believe helps with the distance.
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Behringer X32 / X32 Rack
Soundcraft Si Expression 3 / Soundcraft Mini Stage Box 32 / Soundcraft MADI USB & Dual CAT5 & Dual Optical MADI cards
6 x Sennheiser EW300 G3 / Sennheiser EW572 G3 / Sennheiser EW365 G3 / Sennheiser EW352 G3
2 x Yamaha DSR115 / 2 x QSC KW 118

Jeff Hague

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2015, 04:52:26 pm »

Soundcraft Expression solutions here.

Can I suggest that this sticky be re-named just Soundcraft Si series? The Performer and Expression setups are identical (and I believe that to be true about the older Compact and the new Impact Si series consoles) - the name implies that this is for the Expression only.
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Jeff Hague

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2 Si series consoles and a stagebox
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2015, 04:27:26 pm »

The goal is to connect two Soundcraft Si series consoles to a MiniStagebox. I have done this with an Si Performer3 for house, an Si Performer1 for monitors and a MiniStagebox32 but the same should apply for the Si Expression series and possibly the older Si Compact series.
In this setup the FOH console will control the SB32 – it will have access to all the I/O and will control the mic pres. D.O.G.S on the FOH console will help keep gains from changing in Monitor-world if the FOH guy changes a gain.

  • First you need the dual MADI card that comes with the SB32 installed in the FOH console (SC calls it a MADI HD card).
  • Run a CAT5 or CAT6 cable from the Main port on the card at FOH to the Main port on the SB32.
  • Then run a CAT5 or CAT6 crossover cable from the Aux port on the card at FOH to a MADI port on the monitor console. (The card in the monitor console can be either the single or dual MADI card.)
  • Assign the channel inputs at FOH to the desired inputs on the SB32.
  • Assign the direct outs on the FOH channels to MADI channels. (*I use MADI channels 33 through 64 – see note below)
  • Assign your main outputs from FOH to the desired outputs on the SB32.
  • Enable D.O.G.S on the FOH console.
  • Set the channel inputs on the monitor console to the corresponding MADI channels you assigned as direct outs at FOH.
  • Assign your monitor mix outputs to the local ports on the monitor console.

*Folks might instinctively use MADI channels 1 through 32 for the direct outs (I did at first) but there is a not so well documented gotcha if you do that AND are using the AES/EBU outputs on the SB32 to feed your mains. The AES/EBU outputs use MADI channels 9 through 16 between the console and the stage box. If you assign an output to one of those AES/EBU ports it is no longer available to be assigned to a direct output. Also, if you assign your direct outputs first and then assign the AES/EBU outputs, it allows you to do it and does not throw any kind of warning that it just removed those direct out assignments…

*D.O.G.S is not enabled by default and it does not appear to be saved when a show is saved. I enable D.O.G.S every time I power up the FOH console. I have not checked whether it remains enabled if you load another show file so you may want to check it if you do that in the middle of a show – ie loading a show file from the headliner’s sound-check after the opener is finished.

*Because FOH controls the mic pres and D.O.G.S is only effective over a limited range, you have to set gains at FOH before you can set gains in Monitor-world. This is a workflow change if you are used to analogue isolated splitters where each console has its own mic pres.
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Grant Birchard

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Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2015, 10:18:51 am »

We have a Vi3000 FOH and a SiPerformer3 for a matrix mix to other rooms + recording. And an SB64.

And would your little warning about AESEBU taking up 8 of the MADI channels possibly explain why my DANTE outs are off by 8 going into my Recording rig?

Vi3000 is sending DANTE/MADI out 1-64.. SiPerformer receives those channels on MADI in 65-128 (still don't fully understand why our installation company set it up this way). Installed DANTE card in SiPerformer DirOuts (set to consecutive outs 1-64) appear at DANTE Virtual SoundCard from 1-32 just fine.. But then DANTE out 33-48 appear at 41-64 in Virtual Sound Card and I lose 49-64 from the SiPerf because of the offset.

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 04:21:28 pm by Grant Birchard »
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RyanWilliams

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2015, 02:01:07 pm »

Soundcraft Expression solutions here.

Set up a multipurpose venue that does live shows, Theater, Theatre, and corporate training events recently that is running a QSC DCP/DXP system for live cinema.  That system runs on cobranet.  We used the cobranet interface card and a Whirlwind E-Snake with great results.  There are redundant (REAL, not Linksys/Cisco) Cisco Switches running separate VLANs for Cobranet data, Control data, and guest wifi for venue rentals.  The control data and guest wifi are on separate SSID's of the ubiquity unifi system on the same access points.  Every thing in the venue can be monitored and controlled through IP from a computer on premise that we can remote into when we get a call from the venue late at night.

Cobranet is a far superior protocol because it works through normal Ethernet standards and can coexist on the same gear as everything else the venue needs.  Also the redundancy you can build with a properly converged Cisco network makes it bullet proof.  We achieved mic cable to amplifier digital signal path with 0 DA/AD reconversions very easily and inexpensively with this solution.  We can even use the surround speakers during live shows.  Sending the effects output there really opens up the room.

The only problem is that the DCP doesn't have the flexibility of a BASIS/RAVE system, and lacks some important functions like limiting and high pass on the subwoofers.  There is a project starting to add a QSC BASIS system controller to gain that functionality when the venue is doing live sound.  That's very extra-label use to connect a QSC BASIS to a DXP, but with cobranet as a universal standard it's theoretically possible...
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David Junius

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2015, 09:04:54 pm »

I think this is the best place to ask this. I have an expression 1 and a mini Stagebox 32. I just bought 2 pro co brand cat 5 cables from full compass and they won't physically plug into the stage box. The housing by itself plugs in and the rj45 connector plugs in, but together they won't plug into the box. I'm fairly green when it comes to networking and I've read through this thread hoping to find answers, but so far I'm lost. I've looked through the manual trying to see what Soundcraft calls for, but I can't seem to find that answer either. I thought all the neutrik RJ45 connectors were the same, but apparently they are not. What do I need to look for in a cable to connect the stagebox to the console? I'm going to call full compass and see what they say about my situation tomorrow. I can get the console connected using standard cat5 cables that I built for around the house, but I am hoping to find something a little more "Pro". Hopefully someone can point me where I need to go. Thanks
David
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Michael Thompson

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2015, 09:16:16 pm »

I think this is the best place to ask this. I have an expression 1 and a mini Stagebox 32. I just bought 2 pro co brand cat 5 cables from full compass and they won't physically plug into the stage box. The housing by itself plugs in and the rj45 connector plugs in, but together they won't plug into the box. I'm fairly green when it comes to networking and I've read through this thread hoping to find answers, but so far I'm lost. I've looked through the manual trying to see what Soundcraft calls for, but I can't seem to find that answer either. I thought all the neutrik RJ45 connectors were the same, but apparently they are not. What do I need to look for in a cable to connect the stagebox to the console? I'm going to call full compass and see what they say about my situation tomorrow. I can get the console connected using standard cat5 cables that I built for around the house, but I am hoping to find something a little more "Pro". Hopefully someone can point me where I need to go. Thanks
David

The "ether-con" connector from neutrik is not a terribly sophisticated connector.  There are some variants for Cat6 these days, but it's not at all uncommon to have alignment issues with them.  If you loosen the backshell (strain relief) enough that the RJ45 will wiggle in the outer shell then you should be able to plug it in.  Gently retighten the backshell.  In my experience, once you re-seat the connector like this then you can tighten it more when it's not plugged in.  Do not tighten it too much while it is mated.  The PCB mounted version in the stagebox/mixer can be damaged by doing so.
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David Junius

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Re: Soundcraft Expression
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2015, 09:36:09 pm »

Thanks Michael, that was it. Apparently the hulk works there and assembles their cables. I almost couldn't get the strain relief loosened. I found that backing it off a turn or so allowed the connector to "float" and therefore plug right in. I never thought that they would get out of alignment just by over tightening the strain relief. Thanks again.
David
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