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Author Topic: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?  (Read 2917 times)

Conrad Muzoora

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Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« on: July 07, 2013, 11:49:02 AM »

So i have been in the DJ and PA business for close to 5 years, i have learnt most, if not all that i know on the road and from this forum.. and from some painful and costly mistakes. I currently do mostly weddings and usually provide the sound system for the DJ and MC announcements and speech.

I have amassed quite a remarkable stockpile of equipment as am able to cover up to 3 average sized weddings simultaneously. Now there is this new craze in town with mushrooming small bands in town and my clients are beginning to hire them at my functions. The annoying thing is that most dont want to pay for the additional complexity it takes to mix a band on an otherwise DJ rig.

My plan is to add a few extra equipment (And of-course extra knowledge) and then start charging extra for the service. I have plenty of amps, subs, tops, processors (DBX Driveracks) and just ordered a 24 Channel mixing board (Mackie 24.4 onyx) and a 16x4 channel 100ft snake, and 9 wired sennheinser mikes.

Anything else i should consider?
I will mostly be working with small bands with keyboard, guitar, drums and vocalists.

Conrad
www.kooleventug.com
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 11:59:43 AM by Conrad Muzoora »
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2013, 01:04:47 PM »

So i have been in the DJ and PA business for close to 5 years, i have learnt most, if not all that i know on the road and from this forum.. and from some painful and costly mistakes. I currently do mostly weddings and usually provide the sound system for the DJ and MC announcements and speech.

I have amassed quite a remarkable stockpile of equipment as am able to cover up to 3 average sized weddings simultaneously. Now there is this new craze in town with mushrooming small bands in town and my clients are beginning to hire them at my functions. The annoying thing is that most dont want to pay for the additional complexity it takes to mix a band on an otherwise DJ rig.

My plan is to add a few extra equipment (And of-course extra knowledge) and then start charging extra for the service. I have plenty of amps, subs, tops, processors (DBX Driveracks) and just ordered a 24 Channel mixing board (Mackie 24.4 onyx) and a 16x4 channel 100ft snake, and 9 wired sennheinser mikes.

Anything else i should consider?
I will mostly be working with small bands with keyboard, guitar, drums and vocalists.

Conrad
www.kooleventug.com

  Hello Conrad,

  I would order a longer and larger channel count snake.  Or at least a longer snake.  150ft or 50 meters minimum.  Their length can easily be eaten up by the extra length needed to travel around doorways,  tables, entrances/exits.    Purchase at least 8 DI boxes.   You'd need at least 2 for a DJ's rig, a keyboard player may need 4 or more.   CLEARLY LABEL all of your gear.    To cut down on stage clutter, go with some clip on mics for drums, (or at least clip on mic clips) instead of stands.   Build a kit of adapters and miscellaneous items, like batteries (sell them to the guy that didn't bring their own) a couple of midi cables,  A couple set of various guitar strings (again for the guy that didn't pack their own)     If and when you can afford...a 4 pack of wireless mics (don't buy cheap, stick with brand names)    Possibly a way to record board tapes.. so, some recording device that can easily record an hour's worth of program material.  4 powered stage monitors for the Musicians.

  Good Luck...think smart and buy wisely.    In the future, possibly consider Speaker cabinets with built-in amplification.

  Hammer
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 01:33:35 PM »

If you have enough gear to do 3 DJ shows, you might have enough to do one 'live' show right.  The headroom requirements for a live show are typically much higher than they are for DJ gigs, if you want to do it right, since the music is going to be far more dynamic than playback of compressed music.

The very first thing I would do is cancel the order for the analog mixer and snake.  For a few dollars more, you can get a digital board that will give you far more flexibility.  For most small bands, 16 inputs is more than enough.  Getting a unit with iPad control allows you to leave the board on stage, with no snake, and mix out in the house.  Or, a unit with a digital snake makes it easier to route the snake wherever you want.  Cat 5 cable is cheap and easy to work with.

DI boxes for your instruments is a must.  Doesn't hurt to have extras on hand.

When you buy mic stands, you can buy cheap, or you can buy once.  Unless you plan to exit the business in 6 months, go the buy once route.  Cheap stands do NOT last.

Your mic choice should be determined by the need of the mics.  I don't know any small band show that I've done that I'd use 9 of the same kind of mics on.  3-4 vocal mics, a drum kit (4-5 mics) and then a couple mics for instruments.  Using the right mic for the application makes your job infinitely easier when it comes to making it sound right.

If you go wireless, remember that you have to spend a ton of money to equal the sound of a wired mic.  Don't expect a $300 wireless kit to do you any good for musical performance.  You'll be sadly disappointed.

The last obvious thing I see missing from your plan is monitors.  Good quality monitors will make a world of difference in working with the band. If you buy cheap monitors, you will have more problems on stage getting them to work right.  They won't be as flat of a response, or won't have the directional control that you want, so there ends up stage bleed everywhere.  If you're working with the same band regularly, you can compensate for some of these things by detailed tweaking and positioning to figure out what works, but in a combat situation with a new band, it's best to start with gear that works with very little tweaking necessary.
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2013, 04:22:20 PM »

If you have enough gear to do 3 DJ shows, you might have enough to do one 'live' show right.  The headroom requirements for a live show are typically much higher than they are for DJ gigs, if you want to do it right, since the music is going to be far more dynamic than playback of compressed music.

The very first thing I would do is cancel the order for the analog mixer and snake.  For a few dollars more, you can get a digital board that will give you far more flexibility.  For most small bands, 16 inputs is more than enough.  Getting a unit with iPad control allows you to leave the board on stage, with no snake, and mix out in the house.  Or, a unit with a digital snake makes it easier to route the snake wherever you want.  Cat 5 cable is cheap and easy to work with.

DI boxes for your instruments is a must.  Doesn't hurt to have extras on hand.

When you buy mic stands, you can buy cheap, or you can buy once.  Unless you plan to exit the business in 6 months, go the buy once route.  Cheap stands do NOT last.

Your mic choice should be determined by the need of the mics.  I don't know any small band show that I've done that I'd use 9 of the same kind of mics on.  3-4 vocal mics, a drum kit (4-5 mics) and then a couple mics for instruments.  Using the right mic for the application makes your job infinitely easier when it comes to making it sound right.

If you go wireless, remember that you have to spend a ton of money to equal the sound of a wired mic.  Don't expect a $300 wireless kit to do you any good for musical performance.  You'll be sadly disappointed.

The last obvious thing I see missing from your plan is monitors.  Good quality monitors will make a world of difference in working with the band. If you buy cheap monitors, you will have more problems on stage getting them to work right.  They won't be as flat of a response, or won't have the directional control that you want, so there ends up stage bleed everywhere.  If you're working with the same band regularly, you can compensate for some of these things by detailed tweaking and positioning to figure out what works, but in a combat situation with a new band, it's best to start with gear that works with very little tweaking necessary.

 Hello,

  I agree with your post Brian but, the original poster is from Uganda...and my past experience, although, it has been over 30 years since I've been there, is that it is hard to get many items that the States, or even Western Europe or Asia would take for granted. 

  Hammer
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Conrad Muzoora

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2013, 04:43:47 PM »

As usual, i can count on great feedback from PSW. I have enough monitors, qrx 112/75, ev sx300s, jbl mpro412s etc. Mains ev qrx 115/75.  I really don't understand digital apart from my driveracks, makes the digital board kind of suspect. Like i said i have almost enough gear for the crowds i play (200-300 heads). Amps 1 qsc rmx 5050, 3 qsc 4050, 1 qsc ex4000, 1 jbl mpa 1100, 1 qsc pl236, 1 qsc plx3602, 1 qsc plx 3102, 1 qsc plx 1802, 1 crest 8002, a qsc plx 3402. subs 6 qrx 218. I will get 8 di boxes, anything else?
Conrad
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Conrad Muzoora

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2013, 04:49:31 PM »

I also have 2 line 6 v75 wireless mics, 3 line 6 v30 wireless, 1 shure slx wireless mic, 1 shure pg wireless mic. And i have good access to equipment from US especially ebay.
 If it helps.
Conrad
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Robert Piascik

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2013, 06:32:46 PM »

Don't be afraid of the digital mixer. It's like a microwave oven -- after you learn how to use it you'll wonder how you ever did without it in the past. So much more capability than the analogue. Behringer X-32, Presonus 24.4.4 are some popular choices. But if you DO decide to stay with analogue, prices are falling, falling, falling on what were top quality boards just a year or two ago. For what you are spending on a NEW Mackie I bet you could get a used Midas or A&H that would be far superior.
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Bill McIntosh

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2013, 07:48:19 PM »

Don't be afraid of the digital mixer. It's like a microwave oven -- after you learn how to use it you'll wonder how you ever did without it in the past. So much more capability than the analogue.

+1

My church media director bought a 24 channel Si Performer at a bargain price.  First time I saw it was 30 minutes before I had to run a worship service on it.  Very intuitive, very powerful, very compact -- we disposed of 6 or 8 external processing units.

And +1 on a higher count snake -- especially returns.  Even if you run mono, that is at least 2 sends from the DR (tops and sub) -- then one more send for each aux -- 4 monitors sends -- that's 6 without getting into stereo or multiple sub sends.  (I had to buy a separate 8 channel drive snake for most shows, running 2 snakes does not double your fun.)  :-\
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2013, 08:59:50 PM »

The gear is one thing.  But what nobody has mentioned (or I missed it) is the HUMAN factor-or experience mixing live music.

It is NOT the same thing as "spinning records".  Open mics-interactions-musician with attitudes etc and be quite a challenging experience.

But we all learn it by doing it.  There are great moments and moments of total frustration-just get used to it.
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Conrad Muzoora

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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 01:54:11 AM »

Don't be afraid of the digital mixer. It's like a microwave oven -- after you learn how to use it you'll wonder how you ever did without it in the past. So much more capability than the analogue. Behringer X-32, Presonus 24.4.4 are some popular choices. But if you DO decide to stay with analogue, prices are falling, falling, falling on what were top quality boards just a year or two ago. For what you are spending on a NEW Mackie I bet you could get a used Midas or A&H that would be far superior.

Not really afraid of the digital mixer but i figured it would be wise to start off with analogue and upgrade as needed depending on how the business grows. I was able to get a used mackie onyx 24.4 for 700usd including a nice ATA case. The digital boards start at somewhere above 2500$ even for the behringer. If and when i move the digital route, i will keep the mackie as backup.

Conrad
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Re: Getting ready for "Live" sound, what am i missing?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2013, 01:54:11 AM »


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