ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?  (Read 13080 times)

Justin Staszewski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« on: June 24, 2013, 02:37:54 AM »

I have a Behringer X-32 that I've been using for about 3 weeks now.  I love it, but I'm trying for figure out how to eliminate the gates on the toms, snare and kick in the drummer's in-ears.  It drives him nuts.  I've read through the manual several times and thought I had it up correctly to avoid this but he's still claiming to hear the gates.  Anyone know specifically how to avoid this.   I'm pretty methodical about reading the manual and figuring stuff out, but after 3 weeks he's starting to get chirpy about it, so I'm hoping someone can help.  I'm sure I'm just doing something wrong.

Justin
Logged

Scott Wagner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1020
  • Richmond, VA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2013, 12:23:01 PM »

I have a Behringer X-32 that I've been using for about 3 weeks now.  I love it, but I'm trying for figure out how to eliminate the gates on the toms, snare and kick in the drummer's in-ears.  It drives him nuts.  I've read through the manual several times and thought I had it up correctly to avoid this but he's still claiming to hear the gates.  Anyone know specifically how to avoid this.   I'm pretty methodical about reading the manual and figuring stuff out, but after 3 weeks he's starting to get chirpy about it, so I'm hoping someone can help.  I'm sure I'm just doing something wrong.

Justin
Perhaps you should spend more time setting the gates properly.  If it sounds bad in the IEMs, it probably sounds bad in the house.
Logged
Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23736
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2013, 12:26:37 PM »

Perhaps you should spend more time setting the gates properly.  If it sounds bad in the IEMs, it probably sounds bad in the house.

+1.  Most of the time I see settings with too high a ratio and funky attack/hold/release times.

And I'm not sure that the channel dynamics can be assigned post-aux but still be pre-fader.  There is a huge (6,500+ posts) over at http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/4393-x32-discussion.html that has covered many configuration issues and I *think* this was one of them.
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Jason Lucas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 806
  • Hillsboro, OR, USA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2013, 12:48:55 PM »

I don't know how it works exactly on the X32 but I know on the Roland M-400, the AUX sends on it are always post-dynamics processing. They can be pre-fader or pre-EQ, but the EQ comes after the dynamics section. Could be the case with the X32.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 02:44:58 PM by Jason Lucas »
Logged
There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Justin Staszewski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2013, 02:00:07 PM »

Perhaps you should spend more time setting the gates properly.  If it sounds bad in the IEMs, it probably sounds bad in the house.

Forget I asked.  Instead of getting a straight answer from anyone who knows from experience, I'll just figure that because you read my question having never met me or heard me mix that I must be doing it wrong because you said so.  I'll just route the channels into duplicate channels and route them to the ears until someone who actually owns one of these consoles and knows the answer can offer some constructive advice.  The client doesn't want gates in his ears.  Period.  I do my best to meet my clients relatively reasonable requests.  Thanks for more unsolicited critiques on my ability to do my job when posed with a reasonable question about features on a console.
Logged

brian maddox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3270
  • HeyYahWon! ttsss! ttsss!
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 02:17:26 PM »

Forget I asked.  Instead of getting a straight answer from anyone who knows from experience, I'll just figure that because you read my question having never met me or heard me mix that I must be doing it wrong because you said so.  I'll just route the channels into duplicate channels and route them to the ears until someone who actually owns one of these consoles and knows the answer can offer some constructive advice.  The client doesn't want gates in his ears.  Period.  I do my best to meet my clients relatively reasonable requests.  Thanks for more unsolicited critiques on my ability to do my job when posed with a reasonable question about features on a console.

Well, justin, you're right.  I know of plenty of drummers who love hearing their toms ring for far longer than i'd ever want them to in the house.  And yes, to the best of my knowledge there is no way to send the axes pre dynamics on the X32, so double patching is your only solution for now.

But you're also wrong.  Your overly attitude laden response really makes you come across as young and/or inexperienced.  If you are neither of those, then you just come across as immature.  I'm not telling you this to 'call you out'.  I'm actually telling you this in the hopes that it will help you in the future.  You had an opportunity here to come across as a seasoned professional on a professional forum and you kinda blew it.  So yeah, perhaps the responder could have offered something more helpful and less judgmental.  But you didn't do yourself any favors here either.
Logged
"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
[email protected]
Savannah, GA

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Tommy Peel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1468
  • Longview, Texas
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 02:17:42 PM »

Forget I asked.  Instead of getting a straight answer from anyone who knows from experience, I'll just figure that because you read my question having never met me or heard me mix that I must be doing it wrong because you said so.  I'll just route the channels into duplicate channels and route them to the ears until someone who actually owns one of these consoles and knows the answer can offer some constructive advice.  The client doesn't want gates in his ears.  Period.  I do my best to meet my clients relatively reasonable requests.  Thanks for more unsolicited critiques on my ability to do my job when posed with a reasonable question about features on a console.

Scott makes a good point. But looking at the manual and the x32 Edit app all of the channel sends are after the gate, so the only way to do what you want is to double patch the channel.
Logged

Alec Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 643
  • Herts, UK
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 02:45:21 PM »

Unfortunately, you appear to have hit upon the one limitation that annoys me above all others with the X32 (along with the Si Compact/Expression, the 01V96 and, apparently the Rolands).

In the "budget" range, it appears that only the A&H GLD (along with it's GL2400 brethren) supports pre-dynamics. Best of all, the FLU's allowed quite a lot of choice over where the auxes pick off the signal.

Although,  I guess you can always hold out that it might appear in a future software update.

It's astonishing that the others don't offer this flexibility as it's only software.  Not that you'll necessarily need all the options, but good to have the choice, as in your situation.  And a real pain to have to double up the channels.

Nearly as disappointing a some of the petty posts in this thread...
Logged

Justin Staszewski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 02:50:09 PM »

Well, justin, you're right.  I know of plenty of drummers who love hearing their toms ring for far longer than i'd ever want them to in the house.  And yes, to the best of my knowledge there is no way to send the axes pre dynamics on the X32, so double patching is your only solution for now.

But you're also wrong.  Your overly attitude laden response really makes you come across as young and/or inexperienced.  If you are neither of those, then you just come across as immature.  I'm not telling you this to 'call you out'.  I'm actually telling you this in the hopes that it will help you in the future.  You had an opportunity here to come across as a seasoned professional on a professional forum and you kinda blew it.  So yeah, perhaps the responder could have offered something more helpful and less judgmental.  But you didn't do yourself any favors here either.

Well, I don't know about any of you, but I've always treat other adults politely and with respect no matter who they are.  Scott's condescending tone was positively dripping through the keyboard and I don't appreciate it.  He didn't answer my question, he called my expertise into question and I called him on it.  If I wanted to know if my gate settings were incorrect, I would have provided my parameters and asked so.  I asked if the auxes could be sent pre-gates and he told me my gates were wrong.  I will continue to treat everyone on here with respect right up until they disrespect me.  I will not allow some I guy I don't not know who doesn't know my qualifications question my ability to do my job.  I support a family full time as a sound engineer, whether in the club circuit or working for national acts, I don't need Scott's advice on gates.  Thanks.  If the responses to questions are all gonna be "You're doing it wrong", then this place will become a waste of time instead of a community that helps people in our industry.  As a side note, I post these questions on the Lab Lounge to avoid irritating the experts with my middling issues.  So if Scott is such an expert that he can't be bothered with the quibbles of an amateur like myself, maybe he should stay in the more rarified air of the classic forum.
Logged

Justin Staszewski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2013, 02:52:58 PM »

Unfortunately, you appear to have hit upon the one limitation that annoys me above all others with the X32 (along with the Si Compact/Expression, the 01V96 and, apparently the Rolands).

In the "budget" range, it appears that only the A&H GLD (along with it's GL2400 brethren) supports pre-dynamics. Best of all, the FLU's allowed quite a lot of choice over where the auxes pick off the signal.

Although,  I guess you can always hold out that it might appear in a future software update.

It's astonishing that the others don't offer this flexibility as it's only software.  Not that you'll necessarily need all the options, but good to have the choice, as in your situation.  And a real pain to have to double up the channels.

Nearly as disappointing a some of the petty posts in this thread...

Thanks Tommy for a helpful and enlightening answer to my question.  Guess il be double patching and requesting a feature from Behringer.
Logged

Jason Lucas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 806
  • Hillsboro, OR, USA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2013, 02:53:24 PM »

Unfortunately, you appear to have hit upon the one limitation that annoys me above all others with the X32 (along with the Si Compact/Expression, the 01V96 and, apparently the Rolands).

In the "budget" range, it appears that only the A&H GLD (along with it's GL2400 brethren) supports pre-dynamics. Best of all, the FLU's allowed quite a lot of choice over where the auxes pick off the signal.

Although,  I guess you can always hold out that it might appear in a future software update.

It's astonishing that the others don't offer this flexibility as it's only software.  Not that you'll necessarily need all the options, but good to have the choice, as in your situation.  And a real pain to have to double up the channels.

Nearly as disappointing a some of the petty posts in this thread...

My guess is that since Roland and Behringer each have a personal mixing system is that they each expect you to use the direct outs for monitoring purposes. You can set the direct outs to tap off much earlier in the signal chain than the AUX sends.

That said, I agree with you Alec. It doesn't make any sense to me why they do this when they could most likely easily update this in the software/firmware to allow users to route inputs to AUXes at the pre-dynamics level. Especially when you can route the direct outs this way.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 02:55:24 PM by Jason Lucas »
Logged
There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Jared Koopman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 274
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2013, 03:37:10 PM »

My guess is that since Roland and Behringer each have a personal mixing system is that they each expect you to use the direct outs for monitoring purposes. You can set the direct outs to tap off much earlier in the signal chain than the AUX sends.

That said, I agree with you Alec. It doesn't make any sense to me why they do this when they could most likely easily update this in the software/firmware to allow users to route inputs to AUXes at the pre-dynamics level. Especially when you can route the direct outs this way.

The P16 does indeed tap Pre-gate. but as far as I can see, there isn't a way to route that to a standard output.
Logged

Jason Lucas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 806
  • Hillsboro, OR, USA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2013, 03:46:58 PM »

The P16 does indeed tap Pre-gate. but as far as I can see, there isn't a way to route that to a standard output.

The way the manual was worded lead me to believe that you can set the direct output (specifically) to be pre-gate, pre-EQ, or pre-fader.
Logged
There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Justin Staszewski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2013, 04:03:43 PM »

The way the manual was worded lead me to believe that you can set the direct output (specifically) to be pre-gate, pre-EQ, or pre-fader.

I read it the same way, and after thinking that I had set it this way several times, the drummer informed me he could still hear them.  I figured there must be a trick to it, but I guess I'm just out of luck until Behringer fixes it.  Kind of a bummer because I had to run my Presonus console with the toms double routed for this same reason.  Its one of tne of the reasons i switched consoles.  Oh we'll, at least I have more spare channels on this one until they remedy it.  Other than this relatively minor issue, I'm still completely in love with this console.
Logged

Jason Lucas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 806
  • Hillsboro, OR, USA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2013, 04:08:23 PM »

I read it the same way, and after thinking that I had set it this way several times, the drummer informed me he could still hear them.  I figured there must be a trick to it, but I guess I'm just out of luck until Behringer fixes it.  Kind of a bummer because I had to run my Presonus console with the toms double routed for this same reason.  Its one of tne of the reasons i switched consoles.  Oh we'll, at least I have more spare channels on this one until they remedy it.  Other than this relatively minor issue, I'm still completely in love with this console.

Direct out =/= AUX send. I found out after some frustrating trial and error that just because you can set the direct out to a certain point in the signal chain does NOT mean that you can set it that early in the AUX send. This appears to be the case with the X32. It's one of the most frustrating parts about the Roland board. Even the new versions that have a little more routing flexibility still have this limitation.
Logged
There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Jared Koopman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 274
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 04:14:09 PM »

The way the manual was worded lead me to believe that you can set the direct output (specifically) to be pre-gate, pre-EQ, or pre-fader.

I see where it says that in the user manual, but at least in the software it does not show it available (that I can see). Perhaps that is being added in soon and they just happened to update the manual first?
Logged

Scott Wagner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1020
  • Richmond, VA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 09:24:52 AM »

Forget I asked.  Instead of getting a straight answer from anyone who knows from experience, I'll just figure that because you read my question having never met me or heard me mix that I must be doing it wrong because you said so.  I'll just route the channels into duplicate channels and route them to the ears until someone who actually owns one of these consoles and knows the answer can offer some constructive advice.  The client doesn't want gates in his ears.  Period.  I do my best to meet my clients relatively reasonable requests.  Thanks for more unsolicited critiques on my ability to do my job when posed with a reasonable question about features on a console.
I appologize if I've upset you, or if you feel that I've questioned your abilities in any way.  You asked a question, and I answered it - admittedly a bit brief and blunt.  I intended no disrespect.  I have more experience on this desk than most (or at least as much).  Tommy pointed out the only other work around - double patching the offending channels (where you will have to work harder on your gate settings anyway).   I still stand by my answer.  If anything, it's YOU that have directly questioned MY abilities (and intentions) - just a little something to consider.
Logged
Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

Marc Platt

  • Classic LAB
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 03:37:18 PM »

I appologize if I've upset you, or if you feel that I've questioned your abilities in any way.  You asked a question, and I answered it - admittedly a bit brief and blunt.  I intended no disrespect.  I have more experience on this desk than most (or at least as much).  Tommy pointed out the only other work around - double patching the offending channels (where you will have to work harder on your gate settings anyway).   I still stand by my answer.  If anything, it's YOU that have directly questioned MY abilities (and intentions) - just a little something to consider.

 Your answer? You didn't answer his question, maybe you suggested a solution to an asumed cause of problems you asume he is trying to solve, your assumed wrong and your solution makes no sense, especially if you claim to know this mixer better then everyone else.
 If you know it so well, why would you suggest he needs to learn to opperate his gates as a solution to sending a pre gated signal to an aux buss when in fact it is not an option?
  Which you seem to know suddenly after others have revealed it.
 I doubt you mix 1/2 as many gigs per year as Justin, and neither do I, (he is kind of a whore) (I 'll still school his ass mixing) <--jokes...
  Seriously thougt the drummer he is dealing with does not care how well Justin has the art of gating mastered and even if he hired you to opperate the drum gates exclusively all throughout the gig and the drum gates were the takl of the town, it would do NOTHING to change the fact that HE DON'T WANT ANY GATES IN HIS IEM MIX.
 If you you still stand by your answer, I say good day to you sir!
Logged
As a child I had dreamed of becoming an engineer. Now all I want to know is, when do I get to drive the train?

Tommy Peel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1468
  • Longview, Texas
Re: Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 04:34:17 PM »


 Your answer? You didn't answer his question, maybe you suggested a solution to an asumed cause of problems you asume he is trying to solve, your assumed wrong and your solution makes no sense, especially if you claim to know this mixer better then everyone else.
 If you know it so well, why would you suggest he needs to learn to opperate his gates as a solution to sending a pre gated signal to an aux buss when in fact it is not an option?
  Which you seem to know suddenly after others have revealed it.
 I doubt you mix 1/2 as many gigs per year as Justin, and neither do I, (he is kind of a whore) (I 'll still school his ass mixing) <--jokes...
  Seriously thougt the drummer he is dealing with does not care how well Justin has the art of gating mastered and even if he hired you to opperate the drum gates exclusively all throughout the gig and the drum gates were the takl of the town, it would do NOTHING to change the fact that HE DON'T WANT ANY GATES IN HIS IEM MIX.
 If you you still stand by your answer, I say good day to you sir!

I'm the original post Justin DOES make it sound like he was having trouble making the gates transparent(hence the problem with the drummers IEMs) so I can see where Scott was coming from in his post. If the gates couldn't be heard there wouldn't be a problem.

In any case there isn't a reason to jump on Scott(or anyone else). I'm sure that Scott has much more time on the x32 than me, most of my mixing is on an analog mixer; I just looked it up in the manual.

Sent from my Milestone X using Tapatalk 2

Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23736
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 04:53:44 PM »

A bit of a quick missive to all those who feel butt-hurt:

Lighten up, Francis.

/ word from our sponsors
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Marc Platt

  • Classic LAB
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2013, 05:03:39 PM »

I'm the original post Justin DOES make it sound like he was having trouble making the gates transparent(hence the problem with the drummers IEMs) so I can see where Scott was coming from in his post. If the gates couldn't be heard there wouldn't be a problem.

In any case there isn't a reason to jump on Scott(or anyone else). I'm sure that Scott has much more time on the x32 than me, most of my mixing is on an analog mixer; I just looked it up in the manual.

Sent from my Milestone X using Tapatalk 2


Fair enough, I apologize if I misinterpreted his intentions and maybe Justin did as well, and maybe he did not. I can't speak for him but I can see how he could have read into the reply and now in retrospect I see how Scott may have misinterpreted the OP or simply took it the way it sounded to anyone who does not know the how picky that drummer is with his mix.
  I read the reply wrong, It said "spend more time setting the gates properly.." which I thought he was saying to spend time learning how to set gates, but clearly it means try to set the gate so the drummer can't tell they exist. Which makes some sense until you get a drummer that wants to hear endless head ring that must must be gated out of the house mix for sure, which is the problem with a PITA drummer, which BTW I can't feel too sorry for Justin having to deal with a drummer's shit for the simple fact that before he started in sound he was a playing in bands he was the drummer.
  whether or not he was a PITA for the soundman to please don't matter, he was the drummer.........
Logged
As a child I had dreamed of becoming an engineer. Now all I want to know is, when do I get to drive the train?

Marc Platt

  • Classic LAB
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 215
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2013, 05:12:09 PM »

A bit of a quick missive to all those who feel butt-hurt:

Lighten up, Francis.

/ word from our sponsors
Logged
As a child I had dreamed of becoming an engineer. Now all I want to know is, when do I get to drive the train?

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3391
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2013, 12:18:37 AM »

O.K, so the P16 outputs tap prior to the gates.  What would happen if you sent those outputs out of the AES50A output and then brought it back into the aux channels of the AES50B input?  This would use up your 4 aux inputs, but would leave your regular channels free.
Logged
Brian Jojade

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3391
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 12:02:20 PM »

O.K, so the P16 outputs tap prior to the gates.  What would happen if you sent those outputs out of the AES50A output and then brought it back into the aux channels of the AES50B input?  This would use up your 4 aux inputs, but would leave your regular channels free.

Never mind.  I just realized that you can patch a regular mic input into one of the aux channels directly. No need to mess going through the AES50 to get there.  So you can use 8 aux channels as duplicates of your other channels if needed, still leaving you 32 channels to play with.
Logged
Brian Jojade

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Behringer X-32- bypass gates in monitor outputs?
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2013, 12:02:20 PM »


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.04 seconds with 25 queries.