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Author Topic: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?  (Read 4376 times)

Thomas Le

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Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« on: January 29, 2014, 10:02:44 PM »

...or is it just me?

Background: The lead music director is gathering the techs and volunteers for a "workshop on the sound system" happening in a month, as they changed some routing in the DSP. Me being the de-facto lead tech, I'm going to have fun grilling the contractor as to why line column arrays are such a good idea for a reverberant sanctuary that has tile flooring and minimal acoustic treatment while installed improperly.

Here's the skinny: The sanctuary is designed as a "cross" like a cathedral-type. Tile flooring & minimal acoustic treatment, you get that, very reverberant. Seats about 1600, so a big church. There are actually two systems, a pair (2) of Renkus-Heinz ICONYX line column array installed at the front of the church facing the congregation, and a distributed EAW install consisting of the AX series (AX2 & AX122). Speech AKA minister and ambo mics are permanent to the ICONYX via some weird DSP (could be BSS Soundweb, not london blueface) while the Music is to the EAW rig. EAW rig comes from another BSS Soundweb coming from a Soundcraft GB4-32 (really need to upgrade to digital).

/begin rant of reason

Now what I find idiotic is the ICONYX is not the right tool for the application. Having the ICONYX in the front will only serve the front, the back (including me, because that's where the sound board is) struggle to hear the minister because IMO the contractor DSP EQ'd it like a "cone/triangle" with low-mid and midrange the only thing everyone hears. Add to the fact that it's installed incorrectly in that its deeper in the wall cuts the horizontal dispersion and that the ambo mic point directly to the line column speaker.

I wish they could've made the speech to the main EAW rig and ditch the ICONYX as money spent on the ICONYX could've been money for the digital board. Basically a case of stupid.

/end rant
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 10:32:37 PM by Thomas Le »
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Thomas Lamb

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Re: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 10:32:26 PM »

I hate anything that is used improperly. I do understand it being tuned wrong. Without knowing / seeing more info wether it's the wrong box or not IDK. sounds like kind of a dual PA thing. What was the reason for that? What covers the transepts?
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Thomas Le

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Re: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 10:39:57 PM »

I hate anything that is used improperly. I do understand it being tuned wrong. Without knowing / seeing more info wether it's the wrong box or not IDK. sounds like kind of a dual PA thing. What was the reason for that? What covers the transepts?

Trancepts are EAW AX2 fed a delayed signal of the music system. I'll have to wait in a month to get my reason when the workshop happens.

Another tidbit: I came in as the sanctuary was finished around 2008, so the system was already planned and installed.
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Tom Bourke

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Re: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 11:57:51 PM »

Sounds like really good gear (I like the Renkus-Heinz and most EAW boxes) deployed or adjusted wrong.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 08:29:48 AM »

If the speakers are not installed /aimed properly, then they will not function properly-no matter how "good" the speaker is.

This is ESPECIALLY TRUE with the column type speakers.  Mounting height is VERY important.

Yes you can steer them-but only to a certain extent-the position has to be right.

That includes both the height/overall down angle and obstructions in front/to the sides of it.

Screw that up and there is only a very limited amount you can do with the DSP.

Back when I was in contracting and a column type speaker (I used several different models) was the proper choice-it was ALWAYS a battle to get them where I needed them to be mounted.

But in the end all loudspeakers are just tools, and you have to use the proper tool for the job.

It doesn't matter if you have the best slot screwdriver out there-if the bolt has a phillips head---------.  A cheap phillips would work better.

I am not saying you have the wrong tools-without drawings of the layout and knowing the "limitations" placed on the original install (yes that can be a pain) it is hard to say what would be the right approach.

Very often the correct approach simply will not be accepted by the Church leadership-so the system has to be compromised so that they will accept it.  Of course they will complain when it doesn't work properly-because they think you can stick any speaker in a room and it will work just fine-NOT!
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Brad Weber

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Re: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 04:38:13 PM »

Background: The lead music director is gathering the techs and volunteers for a "workshop on the sound system" happening in a month, as they changed some routing in the DSP. Me being the de-facto lead tech, I'm going to have fun grilling the contractor as to why line column arrays are such a good idea for a reverberant sanctuary that has tile flooring and minimal acoustic treatment while installed improperly.
Seems like you are blaming the product, which may actually be a very good solution for that type of space, when it might be more the application and programming of the product that may be at issue.
 
Now what I find idiotic is the ICONYX is not the right tool for the application. Having the ICONYX in the front will only serve the front, the back (including me, because that's where the sound board is) struggle to hear the minister because IMO the contractor DSP EQ'd it like a "cone/triangle" with low-mid and midrange the only thing everyone hears. Add to the fact that it's installed incorrectly in that its deeper in the wall cuts the horizontal dispersion and that the ambo mic point directly to the line column speaker.

I wish they could've made the speech to the main EAW rig and ditch the ICONYX as money spent on the ICONYX could've been money for the digital board. Basically a case of stupid.
Perhaps a failure to understand the abilities and concept of a steerable array like the Iconyx.  The Iconyx allows complex beam steering and can be an excellent option for what seems to be situations just like yours.  Your thinking that it will only serve only the front seems to display an erroneous understanding of how the Iconyx works and what it can do.  Of course all that capability and flexibility can require a good understanding of the product and its use in order to apply it effectively.  And that is often where less than desirable or optional results end up happening.
 
I don't know all the contraints or goals that were involved in developing the current system design.  Nor do I know the space or what programming of the Iconyx system was performed by what parties.  But I do think you are missing how a system like the Iconyx could potentialy be an excellent soultion for such appplications.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Does anyone else hate line column arrays?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2014, 04:38:13 PM »


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