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Author Topic: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?  (Read 41891 times)

Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #170 on: November 15, 2013, 02:52:44 pm »


It appears that Whirlwind has a pre-made cable that should do the trick for those who don't want to "roll the own". http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/pre-wired-cables/digitalnetwork/enc2s-shielded-cable-ethercon-connectors

Hi Mike,

I sure like the look of the ENC1

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/pre-wired-cables/digitalnetwork/enc1

The open Ethercon connector has always seemed precarious to me: the entire show depends on that cable functioning, yet the important bits are just hanging out there. This Whirlwind one looks like the right level of protection. But it's not an Ethercon, is it? Hard to tell from the black-on-black picture.

It also doesn't appear to be available in a multi-run, like the Gepco tactical 4-Ethernet one (which is UNSHIELDED   :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  )

Thanks,
Dan
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #171 on: November 15, 2013, 05:08:10 pm »

Any of you guys with a rig handy to experiment, and a static tool ( Brian), I would be curious to see how much of this phenomenon is cable shielding and how much is ground bonding between the two digital ports.

An unshielded cable with an added ground wire grabbing chassis at the two ends might make an interesting test...

Sorry I don't want to make busy work for you, just curious to understand the root cause.

JR
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Joe Sanborn

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #172 on: November 15, 2013, 06:33:36 pm »

Dear Guys,
I also HIGHLY recommend a cable with Ethercon ends.
So once again Shielded CAT-5e is what you want to use as you connection between X32 and S16, (and S-16 to S16).
I have used the ProCo, (Pro Co 300' Shielded Cat 5e Ethercon Cable).  It has a robust casing, Ethercon ends and is Shielded CAT-5e.

Dear Guys,

As indicated back in May, use the following cable:
1 - CAT-5e Shielded Cables ONLY 
2 - Ethercon terminated cable ends
3 - Maximum AES50 cable length 100 meters (300')

I have used the ProCo, (Pro Co 300' Shielded Cat 5e Ethercon Cable).  It has a robust casing, Ethercon ends and is Shielded CAT-5e.  In the US Sweetwater carries this cable in-stock, (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EtherShld200), you can select many different lengths up to 300'.

Best Regards,
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
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Darren Scaresbrook

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #173 on: November 15, 2013, 08:40:52 pm »


Here is a nice link that Allen & Heath put out that shows all acceptable cables in the STP form factor. They did the work for you already.

http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/Pages/SubLinkDetails.aspx?CatId=GLDSeries&SID=46

Don't presume that it will work because it works on another system!

I have tried the Ramcat from Klotz and had lots of problems. It is stp and stranded 75 metres. Properly terminated with ethercons. It works fine on the Allen and Heath and the Midas but is no good on the x32.
I am currently using 50 metres of cheap .30c/metre utp solid and it is working fine.

Go figure!

FWIW, here in Australia we get very dry summers.

Darren

« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 09:04:23 pm by Darren Scaresbrook »
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #174 on: November 16, 2013, 03:07:25 am »

Any of you guys with a rig handy to experiment, and a static tool ( Brian), I would be curious to see how much of this phenomenon is cable shielding and how much is ground bonding between the two digital ports.

An unshielded cable with an added ground wire grabbing chassis at the two ends might make an interesting test...

Sorry I don't want to make busy work for you, just curious to understand the root cause.

JR

Hi JR,

Since he has the console and S16 within a few feet of each other, and since they are both grounded by their AC cords to the same outlet, hasn't he already accomplished this?

Thanks,
Dan
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #175 on: November 16, 2013, 09:48:47 am »

Hi JR,

Since he has the console and S16 within a few feet of each other, and since they are both grounded by their AC cords to the same outlet, hasn't he already accomplished this?

Thanks,
Dan

Yes, it should be. Especially for low frequency current, but a rapid rise time transient like a static hit, "could" (I am speculating) cause a voltage difference between the two chassis due to inductance in the path.

Let me put arbitrary hypothetical (not real) numbers on this. Suppose the Z from each chassis back to the mains line cord ground is .5 ohm at the rise time of the static, and the static hit is 1A momentarily. Without the two chassis bonded to each other, a static hit to one or the other will cause a .5v spike in the relative ground voltage between the two units. With the two chassis tied together with another conductive path, the static hit current will follow both paths back to the mains ground.

Of course the Z of the digital cable is not zero, so the relative Z of the cable vs the two safety ground paths will also factor in. This is not that important to understand the root cause. if the solution is simply to use the recommended cable just do it.  I am curious, and it seems a relatively simple experiment, but I will live without knowing.   

JR
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Bob Leonard

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #176 on: November 16, 2013, 10:53:34 am »

JR,
In most cases the Ethernet interface would be a separate module / daughterboard. I don't know if Behringer designed the board in that manner, however, my thought is that the Ethernet module, on board or not, is not properly grounded to chassis ground. This could be intentional or not, but I agree, if the fix is using a special cable, then use it.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #177 on: November 16, 2013, 11:13:32 am »

JR,
In most cases the Ethernet interface would be a separate module / daughterboard. I don't know if Behringer designed the board in that manner, however, my thought is that the Ethernet module, on board or not, is not properly grounded to chassis ground. This could be intentional or not, but I agree, if the fix is using a special cable, then use it.

Yes, I did not want to speculate too much about the internal design. I do not know, and do not want to know, but yes it is very possible that there is some compliance or impedance between the internal digital ground and the chassis or safety ground.  This means that the coupling from a static hit to the digital interface can be variable. However bonding the digital send and digital receive connectors together may bond those two digital grounds together better, or perhaps it is bonding the two chassis together better, maybe both.

I am curious about whether the shielded cable is working as a shield or additional ground bonding path, for this static fault example. My gut tells me the latter, while more shielding is always good too.

never mind me... this is just how I roll..

JR
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Eric Simna

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #178 on: November 16, 2013, 12:12:58 pm »

I can only find it at one wholesaler but Belden 70005E (pdf) seems to fit the bill.

http://www.tmb.com/products/50-proplex-cat5e-snake#features

This product appears to be 4ch and individual shields.  In case you're looking for the redundancy.  I know I'll be considering this for the future.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #179 on: November 16, 2013, 12:47:45 pm »

JR,
In most cases the Ethernet interface would be a separate module / daughterboard. I don't know if Behringer designed the board in that manner, however, my thought is that the Ethernet module, on board or not, is not properly grounded to chassis ground. This could be intentional or not, but I agree, if the fix is using a special cable, then use it.

The AES50 ports are not Ethernet.  How the Ethernet ("remote") jack on the X32 is grounded is not the issue here.  I'm betting your right about a daughter board, though.  The few still pics online of the inside shows several, but none of the pics included the parts we're talking about. :(
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