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Author Topic: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?  (Read 230737 times)

ChristianBoche

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #160 on: November 15, 2013, 03:21:45 AM »

OK folks I did the test that Christian did and got the same result's he did.

No need for a video

SHIELDED CAT5E WITH ETHERCON CONNECTORS ON EACH END. Shocked for more than 20 minutes straight without a drop out.  Pulled the ethercon ends off and the problem presented itself once again. 

So it looks like we have a solution to the problem. 

Perfect Brian!
Good to see that it works for you as well. Concernig the Thomann CAT5 cable. I'm on tour right now in the Netherlands (without a X32), but I can check my cable drum when I'm back next week. If I recall it right, there is only a Belden print on the Thomann cable and no particular model number...

I think, it was the Belden 1305A CAT cable that is recommended by Midas. So it should work for the X32 as well, both use the same Super MAC technology from Klark Teknik.
Christian
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #161 on: November 15, 2013, 03:53:02 AM »


I think, it was the Belden 1305A CAT cable that is recommended by Midas. So it should work for the X32 as well, both use the same Super MAC technology from Klark Teknik.
Christian

That's a UTP.

http://www.markertek.com/Cables/Bulk-Wire-Cable/Bulk-Category-5-5e-6-Cable/Belden/1305A-B59500.xhtml
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RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #162 on: November 15, 2013, 05:41:46 AM »

That says "patch cable". Don't we want snake cable? The only snake cable TMB has is UTP, or am I missing something?

You're missing something.  I am pretty sure most Proplex cable is SFTP.  they do show some UTP on their website also.  Their item codes are very confusing.  Best to call them.
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Aaron Hammett

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #163 on: November 15, 2013, 08:42:56 AM »

Maybe this has been discussed, but it is clear why STP and Ethercon works in the combination. The two devices aren't magically made immune to ESD, but the use of the shielded cable connects the devices as a single Faraday cage. Once the X32 chassis, the cable and the S16 Chassis are in the "cage", ESD is at the same potential on the entire chassis and every component's Chassis Ground potential is lifted to several tens of kV. The next time you touch the board - provided you're contacting the earth in some fashion, you've dissipated the potential.

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #164 on: November 15, 2013, 11:23:51 AM »

OK folks I did the test that Christian did and got the same result's he did.

No need for a video
Actually a short video showing it working and explaining the correct cable that makes it work, to replace the longer videos showing it not work would be the right thing to do. 
Quote
SHIELDED CAT5E WITH ETHERCON CONNECTORS ON EACH END. Shocked for more than 20 minutes straight without a drop out.  Pulled the ethercon ends off and the problem presented itself once again. 

So it looks like we have a solution to the problem.  Always use SHIELDED ETHERCON CABLES

I checked continuity on the rj45 aes50 connectors and the left shield tab in grounded to the chassis of the desk but the right is not.  Same goes for the S16.  Once the ethercon connector is used the entire connector becomes grounded.  I would guess that this solves the problem because of ground potential??

JR what is the purpose of this missing pin test?  I know that each twisted pair handles its predetermined 24 channels of I/O.  I found this out when I mis-wired a Cat5e once.  Could get channels 24-32 to work at all.  I will perform your the test if needed...
JR does not know what Bob Leonard is thinking, and will not guess. Bob has lots more experience than I with this stuff in his IT work. 

Glad we can stick a fork in this one.

JR
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Eric Simna

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #165 on: November 15, 2013, 12:19:05 PM »

You're missing something.  I am pretty sure most Proplex cable is SFTP.  they do show some UTP on their website also.  Their item codes are very confusing.  Best to call them.

So, I've spent some time looking for potential cable to use (that might be a lower price).  What is the difference between duracat/proplex and the insulation on a direct burial cable?  I found this on ebay and it looks like it might be a decent solution:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-CAT5E-CAT-5E-Direct-Burial-STP-Outdoor-CMX-UV-PULL-BOX-/390438042582?pt=US_Ethernet_Cables_RJ_45_8P8C_&hash=item5ae7ebbbd6

Thoughts?
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James A. Griffin

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #166 on: November 15, 2013, 12:23:25 PM »

So, I've spent some time looking for potential cable to use (that might be a lower price).  What is the difference between duracat/proplex and the insulation on a direct burial cable?  I found this on ebay and it looks like it might be a decent solution:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-CAT5E-CAT-5E-Direct-Burial-STP-Outdoor-CMX-UV-PULL-BOX-/390438042582?pt=US_Ethernet_Cables_RJ_45_8P8C_&hash=item5ae7ebbbd6

Thoughts?

Direct burial cables usually have a very stiff outer insulation, making them hard to roll up.  Not the best option for portable use
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Mike Sokol

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #167 on: November 15, 2013, 01:03:13 PM »

Maybe this has been discussed, but it is clear why STP and Ethercon works in the combination. The two devices aren't magically made immune to ESD, but the use of the shielded cable connects the devices as a single Faraday cage. Once the X32 chassis, the cable and the S16 Chassis are in the "cage", ESD is at the same potential on the entire chassis and every component's Chassis Ground potential is lifted to several tens of kV. The next time you touch the board - provided you're contacting the earth in some fashion, you've dissipated the potential.
I would agree with that hypothesis. Using the EtherCon shells on each end creates a soda-straw Faraday shield around the twisted pairs and forces the two boxes to the same voltage potential for fast rise-time signals, such as static. Without the shielded cables and EtherCon ends, even if both the mixer and the stage box are "grounded" to the wall outlet safety grounds, there's still a lot of wiring impedance with series inductance on the trip through the electrical box and such. And that series inductance could be what's allowing the static pulse into the clock circuitry and tripping it up. Another interesting test would be to use UTP without Ehercon ends and bond the stage box to the X32 with a heavy piece of cable. That would determine if it's an actual bonding problem or a shielding problem. However, if the long run if shielded Cat-5 with EtherCon connectors does the trick, then that's the best fix.

It appears that Whirlwind has a pre-made cable that should do the trick for those who don't want to "roll the own". http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/pre-wired-cables/digitalnetwork/enc2s-shielded-cable-ethercon-connectors
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 01:59:22 PM by Mike Sokol »
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Brian Wynn

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #168 on: November 15, 2013, 02:01:47 PM »

Actually a short video showing it working and explaining the correct cable that makes it work, to replace the longer videos showing it not work would be the right thing to do.  JR does not know what Bob Leonard is thinking, and will not guess. Bob has lots more experience than I with this stuff in his IT work. 

Glad we can stick a fork in this one.

JR

Sorry guys I did do a last video to mimic Christians findings but it was set to private again.  Its now public and you can view it here.

http://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=PJJBhSvagn0

Someone mentioned Duracat cable.  DO NOT USE IT.  Thats what I have had all the problems with.  First of all its non-shielded and its solid wire cat6 not 5.

Here is a nice link that Allen & Heath put out that shows all acceptable cables in the STP form factor. They did the work for you already.

http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/Pages/SubLinkDetails.aspx?CatId=GLDSeries&SID=46
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:05:12 PM by Brian Wynn »
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Corey Scogin

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #169 on: November 15, 2013, 02:14:49 PM »

I can only find it at one wholesaler but Belden 70005E (pdf) seems to fit the bill.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:16:55 PM by Corey Scogin »
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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #169 on: November 15, 2013, 02:14:49 PM »


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