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Author Topic: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?  (Read 230711 times)

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #230 on: January 28, 2014, 06:38:55 AM »

Quote
Rats. I don't see any hope here for using existing UTP. As I said earlier itt, the quad Proplex is much too stiff and unwieldy to use, at least in my scheme of things, and I feel the need for redundant cable runs so that a quad cable is perfect. The Gepco doesn't come in STP, and I haven't found any besides the Proplex.

Phooey.

I have been recommending Proplex to everyone who needs a good Cat5 cable.  You either want a high quality, rugged cable for your rig or you want to be cheap and deal with dropouts, which is it?  Are you so unwilling to deal with a slightly stiffer cable that you will risk using an inferior product and the side effects that come along with it? 

What would your customers say if they found out you could have bought a better cable that would have prevented the pops and drop outs but it would take a few extra minutes for you to roll up?  If you really feel you need a redundant Cat5 run, why not just buy a couple of the single runs rather that the quad cable?
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #231 on: January 28, 2014, 09:32:41 AM »

...  If you really feel you need a redundant Cat5 run, why not just buy a couple of the single runs rather that the quad cable?

Curiously, I would think the best redundant cable strategy would be 2 different physical cables, each taking a different route.  Then if someone drives a forklift over your quad core,...

Me (just moved to Cat snakes 2 weeks ago), I am carrying a spare single Cat5e in the trunk, just in case.  Certainly not as good as having the backup on the ground,....

ProPlex for primary, Duracat as a backup.
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Mark McFarlane

Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #232 on: January 29, 2014, 04:11:34 AM »

I have been recommending Proplex to everyone who needs a good Cat5 cable.  You either want a high quality, rugged cable for your rig or you want to be cheap and deal with dropouts, which is it?  Are you so unwilling to deal with a slightly stiffer cable that you will risk using an inferior product and the side effects that come along with it? 

What would your customers say if they found out you could have bought a better cable that would have prevented the pops and drop outs but it would take a few extra minutes for you to roll up?  If you really feel you need a redundant Cat5 run, why not just buy a couple of the single runs rather that the quad cable?

Dear Loudmusic,

First, you are confusing the process with the end result. I realize that the way I am working this out may not have come through the Internet in its fullest entirety.

Second, thank you for the amusing part suggesting that my favorite path is the cheap one. I have pointed this out to my wife, who has been pretty sure that I consistently take the opposite route, and look forward to making my crew and my local audio friends aware of this allegation by a respected member of the audio community here.

Thirdly and finally, to say that the quad Proplex is "slightly stiffer" is a clear indicator that you have never personally tried to handle it, and that you should reserve an opinion about its properties until you do. OTOH, I have never handled the single Proplex and have not offered an opinion about it, only about the quad.

Sincerely, etc.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #233 on: January 29, 2014, 04:23:04 AM »

Curiously, I would think the best redundant cable strategy would be 2 different physical cables, each taking a different route.  Then if someone drives a forklift over your quad core,...

Hi Mark,

One of the very surprising results of our "Audio Over Ethernet Cable" workshop last June was the degree to which a forklift (in our case a scissor lift, but roughly equivalent in weight and tire solidity) can repeatedly drive over an active CAT5e cable on a hard floor and not affect its performance on that day. I'm not alleging anything about the cable's long term prospects, but a cable which was pounded as flat as it could be not only continued to carry signal without interruption, but when removed from the console/snake head and measured with a very sensitive CAT cable evaluation system (Fluke, model number I forget, a $14000+ gizmo), it passed all the parameter tests!

All bets are off if the forklift drags and severs, of course.

I think we are moving in a direction that will require more than one Ethernet cable in our snakes, and I'm getting ready for that now. I already have some uses for multiple cables with the X32 that I can describe if you want. You may not have those uses, I don't know.

And I agree that it is a good practice to have a spare single cable at the gigs which is only run out in emergencies, but that does not preclude multiple runs as a standard.

Dan
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Brian Bolly

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #234 on: January 29, 2014, 08:04:19 AM »

Dan,

I've been casually following this thread and found what seems to be some interesting parallels between the X32/S16 connection issues and a technical note issued by Digico for use with their consoles that connect to their D-Rack (CAT5 stage rack).

The technical note calls out 3 types of acceptable STP CAT5 cable that must be terminated with the Ethercon NE8 shells, and each cable is specified with its own unique type of ferrite clamp.

The one thing that never made much sense to me, in looking at the specs between the 3 types of ferrite clamps, is that I could not find a certain spec that tied all 3 together.  That is, I can only figure that Digico did some type of field testing and determined that these specific ferrite clamps were the appropriate ones to use with that specific type of cable, but I do not know what properties of the STP cable (presumably) make those types of ferrite clamps the correct ones to use.

Regardless, this is what they call out as acceptable cable and clamps:

  • VanDamme TourCat CAT5e STP cable with Laird-Signal Integrity Product type 28A0593-0A2 ferrite clamp
  • Neutrik EtherFLEX Cat 5e STP cable with Laird-Signal Integrity Product type 28A0640-0A2 ferrite clamp
  • TMB.com Proplex PCCAT5EP cable with Kitagawa type SFC-6 ferrite clamp

In all cases, they specify that the cable must be terminated by Neutrik NE8-MC1 Ethercon shells.

I'm assuming that the ferrite clamp that Morgan calls out is a Kitagawa part as well.  They seem to be difficult to find in the states, but not totally impossible.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #235 on: January 29, 2014, 08:50:32 AM »

...
I think we are moving in a direction that will require more than one Ethernet cable in our snakes, and I'm getting ready for that now. I already have some uses for multiple cables with the X32 that I can describe if you want. You may not have those uses, I don't know....

I'd do need a separate control network between FOH and stage since the DSP got moved to the stage when I went Cat5 a few weeks ago. Useful also for wireless mics (WSM) where the RX is on stage.  My tentative solution is a wireless AP (extender) in the stage rack.  Bought the WAP for the stage box but haven't hooked it up yet.
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Mark McFarlane

Per Sovik

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #236 on: January 29, 2014, 09:02:59 AM »

Anybody remember thinking: "Digital stagebox, good, no more running a big heavy snake, just an easy cat5, whoopee!!!!"?

Life have taught me one thing: Ignorance might lead you to think there is an easier solution.  ;)
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #237 on: January 29, 2014, 09:08:46 AM »

Anybody remember thinking: "Digital stagebox, good, no more running a big heavy snake, just an easy cat5, whoopee!!!!"?

Life have taught me one thing: Ignorance might lead you to think there is an easier solution.  ;)

:)

Still, my Cat5e + stage box takes up a LOT less pack space than the old 24*8 snake, Even with a dual core I'm probably at 1/2 the pack volume and weight and even though the single ProPlex is stiff and sticky it is still a lot easier to wrangle than an inch of copper.  Maybe not the quad....  I haven't seen it.
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Mark McFarlane

Mark McFarlane

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #238 on: January 29, 2014, 09:16:44 AM »

...
TMB.com Proplex PCCAT5EP cable with Kitagawa type SFC-6 ferrite clamp

...

I'm assuming that the ferrite clamp that Morgan calls out is a Kitagawa part as well.  They seem to be difficult to find in the states, but not totally impossible.

One Kitagawa SFC-6 source: http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/store/product_info.php/kitagawa-sfc-split-ferrite-snap-cable-629ohms-p-451510

$3.71 each
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Mark McFarlane

Mark McFarlane

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Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #239 on: January 29, 2014, 09:18:51 AM »

I just went and measured continuity on a couple of Ethercon cables and found this:

ProPlex 100': Shell to shell mesures 1-2 Ohms
Rapco Duracat (6e) 150': Shell to shell is open (not connected)

Interesting....

Anyone else check their shell-to-shell connection?
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Mark McFarlane

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: behringer x32 cracking and popping with 2x S16 connected?
« Reply #239 on: January 29, 2014, 09:18:51 AM »


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