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Author Topic: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?  (Read 11958 times)

drew gandy

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 02:56:57 pm »

There will be a distance in the way the two sub designs roll off with distance, or a different "throw"? Wasn't the conclusion from a thread a while back, that "throw" doesn't exist? Or am I misunderstanding what is being said here?

This is a near field type of effect.  You know how Ivan talks about measuring a speaker at 10m and then back calculating a 1m sensitivity?  When the distance that you are from the SRO (sound radiating object) is within a couple multiples of the dimensions of the SRO then you are going to see some "warping" that you won't see at a distance.  Actually, do a google of "Dave Gunness speaker throw".  Likely the second entry will be for a thread in the archive where Dave is quoted about this topic.  He might explain this with greater clarity. 
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Samuel Rees

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Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 03:46:33 pm »

Thanks guys, (warning: warm and fuzzies ahead) I learn so much here, I can't thank you pros enough for participating knowing you'll mostly be helping and answering questions. Carry on....
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sam saponaro

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013, 01:41:23 am »

Back befor I had much more knowledge than to "make it work" a band I was(am still)in had a set of JBL 4530 double 15" scoops powered off a Mackie amp and they allways sounded good inside and outside especially comsidering the "mix and match" gear that was strung befor them.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 01:42:57 am by sam saponaro »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2013, 04:05:12 pm »

Back befor I had much more knowledge than to "make it work" a band I was(am still)in had a set of JBL 4530 double 15" scoops powered off a Mackie amp and they allways sounded good inside and outside especially comsidering the "mix and match" gear that was strung befor them.

Back in the day... in the past century by a couple of decades... we had some very decent gear.  What we didn't have was as many resources for learning, experience, education or training.  Much of what we learned came from articles in trade publications (John Roberts was one of the writers, so were Ken Pohlmann, John Woram...) and buying the books those folks mentioned.  The trial and error approach we had to take in experimenting with what we learned as for most of us there weren't others nearby who could validate or criticize our efforts.  Translate that to "we blew up a lot of stuff back then."   ::)

But to your point... considering what we know now compared to what we knew back then, it's a miracle we could even make sound with soup cans and string.  ;D

I've got part of my old Community-based rig stored in my mom's shed.  I'm thinking that later this fall I'll bug-bomb the shed and drag the tops and mids back here to see what I can get out of them with a measurement session and DSP.

And if I'd known that my BiAmp 2442 would be collectable in 2013, I'd have kept it...
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Tim Perry

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2013, 05:05:50 pm »

Back in the day... in the past century by a couple of decades... we had some very decent gear.  What we didn't have was as many resources for learning, experience, education or training. 

This should be nominated for the quote of the month.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2013, 07:39:05 pm »

Back in the day... in the past century by a couple of decades... we had some very decent gear.  What we didn't have was as many resources for learning, experience, education or training.  Much of what we learned came from articles in trade publications (John Roberts was one of the writers, so were Ken Pohlmann, John Woram...) and buying the books those folks mentioned.  The trial and error approach we had to take in experimenting with what we learned as for most of us there weren't others nearby who could validate or criticize our efforts.  Translate that to "we blew up a lot of stuff back then."   ::)

But to your point... considering what we know now compared to what we knew back then, it's a miracle we could even make sound with soup cans and string.  ;D

I've got part of my old Community-based rig stored in my mom's shed.  I'm thinking that later this fall I'll bug-bomb the shed and drag the tops and mids back here to see what I can get out of them with a measurement session and DSP.

And if I'd known that my BiAmp 2442 would be collectable in 2013, I'd have kept it...
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW I had a Biamp 2442-that I modded (like all my consoles) to give an extra aux send-upgraded the faders and so forth.

However the truly sad thing-is that with SO MUCH freely available information these days-I honestly think the "overall" quality of sound system (all averaged together) is lower than back in those days.

It is sooo easy for anybody to go to GC and buy a system-yet have NO idea how to run or hook it up... And the end result if bad sound.

We have SOOOO many better tools and equipment available to us these days-but that alone does not mean it is going to sound good. :(

The sound only gets better IF the tools are used properly.

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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duane massey

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2013, 02:24:55 pm »

I'm showing my age here (birthday this week) but it sure seems like the quality of engineers goes down when the quality of technology goes up. Making the gear easier dosen't make the operator better.
Can't begin to calculate how many times in the 70's we'd sit down and try to figure out how to design a particular cabinet or electronic gadget, only to eventually say "Screw it" and just build the damn thing. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it failed spectacularly....
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Duane Massey
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sam saponaro

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2013, 06:26:42 pm »

I've got part of my old Community-based rig stored in my mom's shed.  I'm thinking that later this fall I'll bug-bomb the shed
Funny you should say that.....my JBL 4530s are in my Mom's shed too.....good thing for moms. Now I almost feel bad she can't fit her lawn mower in the shed with the refridgerator boxes in there..........but whats a PA guy to do....ya know. ;)
Now to dig the A7s outta dad's shed LOL ;D
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duane massey

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2013, 01:44:15 am »

I still have a pair of full-sized M4 flares and drivers in my warehouse. Don't have a use for them, but don't want to discard them either. Fixing to move to a different building, and I'm sure they'll  make the trip.
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Duane Massey
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Houston, Texas

Onlin Barna

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Re: Do horn subwoofers really sound bad indoors?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2013, 04:01:17 pm »

I have problems both in and outdoor.

I found a suggestion about installing horn subwoofers, here is it: http://www.soundlightcrew.hu/hangfaltervek/rutsevaria.jpg

Not so complicated, I have 2 so I installed as the first pictures shows.

My problem: There is almost nothing bass "kick" in the middle section, I have painted a very poor about how I hear it.

I also tried the subs installing vertically, it's the same.

Here is my masterpiece: http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/1913/subgo.jpg

Red is where I hear nothing bass, at green it kicks very hard.

By the way the subs are 21", 600w but I think that doesn't really matter. The inside of the box is not so complicated, its something similar to what I painted.

Does anybody have idea how should I make it?
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