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[Steve Payne]

Indeed I am, and I'm hoping you get this thing tuned up as best you can -- I have a lot of friends who are likely to play on it in the coming years.

If it was me doing this, and if I could afford to wait for an indefinite amount of time, I'd wait for the big Crest ProLite DSPs to ship. If I wanted to do it right away, I'd be looking at used Itech 6k's for both the 21's and double-18's, and Crown XTI4002-2002-1002 for the tops. You could put that all-Crown rack together for around $5k with some careful shopping.

Cheers,
Chris

FWIW, Turbosound has never recommended Crown amps for use with their speaker systems.  This is a quote from another thread:
---------
>>We do sell rebadged MC2s, Labs are popular in Oz as Audio Telex distribute these aswell (plus they are light, sound good and reliable) Beyond that you could probably amake a decent fist of it with QSC. However Crown and Turbosound just don't seem to mix so I'd recommend you look at Labs as a good compromise.

I hope that this helps. If you need further assistance let us know. In the meantime have fun and enjoy

Take care

Tim McCall
ME & Asia Sales
Turbosound Ltd<<
--------

This post is a bit old.  Maybe things have changed and maybe it doesn't really matter.  Just sayin'.

[Simon Ryder]

Hi all -

My production company is a recent purchaser of a second-hand Turbosound floodlight system including the following pieces:

4X TFS 760HS (floodlight skeleton 3-way 1/6/12 - all factory drivers)
4X TFS 780L (floodlight 1X21 - all factory drivers)
4X TSW 718 (2x18 sub cabs - using fane 18" drivers)

we also own a Xilica 4080 speaker processor/active crossover

We are looking into procuring amplifiers for this system with the following configurations in mind:
2 X TFS 760Hs + 2 X TSW718 (4-way) mobile rig
2 X TFS 760Hs + 4 X TFS 780L (4-way) mobile rig

Our partner on the purchase is helping us design the system is adament about using MC2 amps...It's his contention that nothing will drive the TS cabs to the optimum ability besides MC2 kit. 

While this may have been the only acceptable choice back in the mid-90's i can't help but wonder if amp technology has advanced to the point where competitors are making top quality alternatives to this?

Any assistance into helping determine great amplification for these configs would be much appreciated.
I am REALLY have a hard time conceptualizing the amplification for the tops in particular -

From the TS archives

TFS 760Hs
LMF: 250 watts r.m.s., 500 watts program, 625 watts peak
HMF: 100 watts r.m.s., 200 watts program, 250 watts peak
HF: 50 watts r.m.s., 100 watts program, 125 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: LMF: 500 watts@8 ohms, HMF: 200 watts@16 ohms, HF: 100 watts@16 ohms

TFS 780L
1X21" 600 watts r.m.s., 1200 watts program, 1500 watts peak
(could not find recomended amplifier ratings)

TSW 718
2x18" 800 watts r.m.s., 1600 watts program, 2000 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: 1600 watts @ 4 ohms

Bonus points:
Full system - 5-way configuration (i cannot see if the Xilica processor can do a 5-way configuration using mono outputs for the subs...)

thanks everybody!

Hi Justin,

The xilica processing is OK but not as good as some out there. The limiters particularly can sound pretty hard edged.

Stick with it until you can afford to move to the XTAs (new ones - the 2 series had a jitter issue and were outperformed by the BSS minidrives), Linea Research or Dolby Lakes. All of which would be an upgrade sound quality wise from the Xilicas.

If you can stand the weight, the finest sounding amps out there for mids and HF are the BSS ePC760 and 780. They were reputedly the best sounding toroidal based PA amps ever made and have even won shootouts with exotic Bryston, Chord and Krell amps in the studio world. There are a few up[grades available for them from the man who designed them.

You will find that the BSS EPC780s out punch the Lab Gruppens, QSC 3 series on sub even though they are only putting out around 1200 hundred watts a side. There is an immediacy and impact that most other amps can't equal.

We are moving to FFA 10.0 amps for sub duty. One of the very few amps out there that delivers more current at 30Hz continuously than it will broad band. Very fast, tight, punchy with a characteristic similar to the original BSS but with way more power.

The MC2 amps are hideously expensive and to our ears add an "artificial" warmth. In other words, we think they sound coloured. Purely subjective of course.


Having done some evaluations, the Linea Research amps look ideal for the mid high units - one of the most transparent class D amps on the market - they have really pioneered a great sounding solution to the HF filtering required in Class D amps.

The FFAs pretty much outperform everything else on sub duty except the Powersoft K10 and K20, though to us the FFA seems a little more musical.

Also worth considering are Yamaha Tn series or Digam Prowersoft K series (though both the BSS and Linea Research sound better on the upper mids and HF).

Have fun and LISTEN TO THEM before you buy anything. There are specs, statistics, lies and damn lies. The only way to really choose which amp is best is to listen to it, measure and use your judgement.

[Bob L. Wilson]

FWIW, Turbosound has never recommended Crown amps for use with their speaker systems.  This is a quote from another thread:
---------
>>We do sell rebadged MC2s, Labs are popular in Oz as Audio Telex distribute these aswell (plus they are light, sound good and reliable) Beyond that you could probably amake a decent fist of it with QSC. However Crown and Turbosound just don't seem to mix so I'd recommend you look at Labs as a good compromise.

I hope that this helps. If you need further assistance let us know. In the meantime have fun and enjoy

Take care

Tim McCall
ME & Asia Sales
Turbosound Ltd<<
--------

This post is a bit old.  Maybe things have changed and maybe it doesn't really matter.  Just sayin'.

It seems logical that if the OP doesn't want to pay the toll to use MC2 amps that also eliminates Lab, Powersoft, and the various other esoteric lines. I am fairly well convinced that speakers have no personal preference about how they are powered nor does any savvy user ever give a tinkers d _ _ n which amp brand the speaker manufacturer thinks should be used, as that recommendation is necessarily and completely biased by their own financial incentives.

[Simon Ryder]

It seems logical that if the OP doesn't want to pay the toll to use MC2 amps that also eliminates Lab, Powersoft, and the various other esoteric lines. I am fairly well convinced that speakers have no personal preference about how they are powered nor does any savvy user ever give a tinkers d _ _ n which amp brand the speaker manufacturer thinks should be used, as that recommendation is necessarily and completely biased by their own financial incentives.

Amplifiers work with different characteristics into different resistive and inductive loads ie a speaker.

Also included in the factor are the driver itself and then how it behaves due to its current loading technique - horn, reflex etc.  Different loading techniques produce differing forces on the driver which produce frequency related artifacts. These then play a role in how the amplifier delivers power to this load and how it behaves at different frequencies.

There are many who would argue that 5000 watts is 5000 watts. In relation to what though. Can it deliver those 5000 watts across the entire frequency bandwidth asked, and how long can it keep this up for?

Those of us in the real world know that a Crown MA5000 will eat a Camco Vortex 6 for breakfast and deliver more and more. The Camco is apparently bigger on paper. The Camco however sounds infinitely better on mids and highs though than the Crown.


Many people have vested interests in telling you that X is better than Y because their obvious or unobvious paycheck depends on it. The way round this is to analyse it for your self. Measure and above all, LISTEN. Only buy when you know if it is better or not and what the back up and support it like in your area.

BTW second hand Lab Gruppens and FFAs are very reasonable in europe.

[Bob L. Wilson]

Amplifiers work with different characteristics into different resistive and inductive loads ie a speaker.

Also included in the factor are the driver itself and then how it behaves due to its current loading technique - horn, reflex etc.  Different loading techniques produce differing forces on the driver which produce frequency related artifacts. These then play a role in how the amplifier delivers power to this load and how it behaves at different frequencies.

There are many who would argue that 5000 watts is 5000 watts. In relation to what though. Can it deliver those 5000 watts across the entire frequency bandwidth asked, and how long can it keep this up for?

Those of us in the real world know that a Crown MA5000 will eat a Camco Vortex 6 for breakfast and deliver more and more. The Camco is apparently bigger on paper. The Camco however sounds infinitely better on mids and highs though than the Crown.


Many people have vested interests in telling you that X is better than Y because their obvious or unobvious paycheck depends on it. The way round this is to analyse it for your self. Measure and above all, LISTEN. Only buy when you know if it is better or not and what the back up and support it like in your area.

BTW second hand Lab Gruppens and FFAs are very reasonable in europe.

 I know of no other single channel of amplification can develop the kind of continuous output that Crown MA10000s rigged push pull can. Granted they need three phase power (maybe even old style high leg delta I would have to look it up) and they weigh a ton to road around. I personally witnessed a pair of them used to lay down two inches of reasonable weld on 1/8" plate steel to win a bet. The Crest 10001 was also one heck of a good high output subwoofer amp but they can't be rigged push pull and a single, while probably more powerful that a single MA10000 will get its hat handed to it by a push pull pair. In fact as I remember it up to eight MA10000s could be linked together to form one push pull parallel rig with four times the current and four times the voltage of a single MA10000. No way can any 115V powered amp that is limited to 30A continuous and (giving it the benefit of the doubt) 60 amps peak through its 30A breaker produce that kind of continuous output. Can todays high end 115V amps produce smart efficient output for the kind of waves that actually exist in music, obviously yes.

[Stu McDoniel]

Hi all -

My production company is a recent purchaser of a second-hand Turbosound floodlight system including the following pieces:

4X TFS 760HS (floodlight skeleton 3-way 1/6/12 - all factory drivers)
4X TFS 780L (floodlight 1X21 - all factory drivers)
4X TSW 718 (2x18 sub cabs - using fane 18" drivers)

we also own a Xilica 4080 speaker processor/active crossover

We are looking into procuring amplifiers for this system with the following configurations in mind:
2 X TFS 760Hs + 2 X TSW718 (4-way) mobile rig
2 X TFS 760Hs + 4 X TFS 780L (4-way) mobile rig

Our partner on the purchase is helping us design the system is adament about using MC2 amps...It's his contention that nothing will drive the TS cabs to the optimum ability besides MC2 kit. 

While this may have been the only acceptable choice back in the mid-90's i can't help but wonder if amp technology has advanced to the point where competitors are making top quality alternatives to this?

Any assistance into helping determine great amplification for these configs would be much appreciated.
I am REALLY have a hard time conceptualizing the amplification for the tops in particular -

From the TS archives

TFS 760Hs
LMF: 250 watts r.m.s., 500 watts program, 625 watts peak
HMF: 100 watts r.m.s., 200 watts program, 250 watts peak
HF: 50 watts r.m.s., 100 watts program, 125 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: LMF: 500 watts@8 ohms, HMF: 200 watts@16 ohms, HF: 100 watts@16 ohms

TFS 780L
1X21" 600 watts r.m.s., 1200 watts program, 1500 watts peak
(could not find recomended amplifier ratings)

TSW 718
2x18" 800 watts r.m.s., 1600 watts program, 2000 watts peak
Recommended amplifier power: 1600 watts @ 4 ohms

Bonus points:
Full system - 5-way configuration (i cannot see if the Xilica processor can do a 5-way configuration using mono outputs for the subs...)

thanks everybody!

Hello Justin.  Ive read over all of this.  Here is some good advice.  "Think outside of the box". Dont get locked into the idea that only one amplifier design will work, or one processor will work.   Gads I see this kind of thought in the high and audio world.   

[Chris Van Duker]

Hello Justin.  Ive read over all of this.  Here is some good advice.  "Think outside of the box". Dont get locked into the idea that only one amplifier design will work, or one processor will work.   Gads I see this kind of thought in the high and audio world.

Not to mention, different lines of amps within a brand can be quite different from one another.  To say that a transformer-powered class-AB Macrotech, a transformer-powered class-D K2, a switching class-H XTI, and a regulated switching, class-D Itech will all have the same limitations on a particular brand of gear, despite radically different topologies, all because of having a Crown badge, suggests that there's more mysticism than science at work here. Honestly, you could probably make this rig sound very nice with a big pile of old QSC USA-series amps and a bit of finesse.

-Chris

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