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Author Topic: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system  (Read 17939 times)

paul bell

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 07:44:55 AM »

Shielded speaker wire can introduce noise into the system. The same goes for non-twisted speaker wire-such as straight zip cord.

Any 16 to 14 gauge twisted pair speaker wire will suffice and pass amplified speaker level signal equally well as any other cable, including the high dollar exotics.

Twisted pair wiring is noise self-canceling. A thousand feet of cat5 without shield is church quiet.

Once upon a time, I did a blind A/B/C test with a friend who considers himself an "audiophile" on his high end system. His big bucks wire, 16 gauge zip cord and just two strands of a cat5 wire. He could NOT discern the difference between any of the cables.
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paul bell

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 07:50:15 AM »

That same fool today has these high voltage insulators lined up across his living room to elevate the speaker cables off the floor. It "improves the imagery and transparency of the sound while unveiling the curtain on the acoustical performance of the inductors"
I'm in the wrong business!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 07:55:43 AM by paul bell »
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 10:20:47 AM »

Shielded speaker wire can introduce noise into the system. The same goes for non-twisted speaker wire-such as straight zip cord.
Most cases of noise in hifi systems caused by speaker wire were related to marginal hifi amplifier designs. The hifi side is/was flakier than even value pro amps.

Shielded wire has more capacitance which "could" lead a marginal amp to oscillate. While the oscillation is generally above audio frequency sometimes you will hear noise or even radio, until the amp releases it's smoke.

Zip cord does not have much loop area between the conductors to pick up noise from magnetic fields. Twisted pair is better than loose single wires but both the loudspeaker load and amplifier output are relatively low impedance, so noise pick up is generally not an issue. I have seen a few obscure cases where a speaker wire picked up a high RF field and that got rectified by the amplifier output stage, but that is pretty rare.

I stand with zip cord recommendation, and keeping the wire runs relatively short.   
Quote
Any 16 to 14 gauge twisted pair speaker wire will suffice and pass amplified speaker level signal equally well as any other cable, including the high dollar exotics.

Twisted pair wiring is noise self-canceling. A thousand feet of cat5 without shield is church quiet.

Once upon a time, I did a blind A/B/C test with a friend who considers himself an "audiophile" on his high end system. His big bucks wire, 16 gauge zip cord and just two strands of a cat5 wire. He could NOT discern the difference between any of the cables.
If the wires were short I wouldn't expect any audible difference. If the wire length and gauge allows enough resistance build up, it can alter passive crossover tuning, and interact with the speaker impedance changing with frequency to cause response errors.

The hifi wire business is a stupidity tax.

JR

PS: I recall years ago on this forum wrestling with a true believer who "heard" an improvement from his exotic speaker cable. After a little back and forth we determined that the resistance of the relatively small gauge speaker wire had altered the frequency response of his particular speakers in a way he liked. There is an expectation bias with expensive doo-dads to interpret any difference as an improvement.   
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 10:49:31 AM »

Shielded is probably the wrong term to use on a forum like this I should have said jacketed.. it makes the cable easier to pull through drilled holes and protects the conductors.
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/in-wall-speaker-wire/1618


Why would you use shielded cable for speakers in a home stereo?
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James A. Griffin

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2013, 11:21:20 AM »

In my experience, the only person who hears an improvement is the person who bought the wire.

.... and the people who sell them.
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2013, 12:55:47 PM »

keeping the wire runs relatively short.   If the wires were short I wouldn't expect any audible difference. If the wire length and gauge allows enough resistance build up, it can alter passive crossover tuning, and interact with the speaker impedance changing with frequency to cause response errors.

Yep.  He'll probably do more damage to his systems's performance, percieved or not, by relocating the amplifiers farther away, than a specific speaker wire will.
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Randall Hyde

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2013, 01:01:53 PM »

Shielded speaker wire can introduce noise into the system. The same goes for non-twisted speaker wire-such as straight zip cord.

Any 16 to 14 gauge twisted pair speaker wire will suffice and pass amplified speaker level signal equally well as any other cable, including the high dollar exotics.

Twisted pair wiring is noise self-canceling. A thousand feet of cat5 without shield is church quiet.

Once upon a time, I did a blind A/B/C test with a friend who considers himself an "audiophile" on his high end system. His big bucks wire, 16 gauge zip cord and just two strands of a cat5 wire. He could NOT discern the difference between any of the cables.

Back in the 1980s, I compared 12-GA zip, "Monster" cable, and Litz wire. The stereo system consisted of an Ampzilla amp driving Dalquist DQ-10 (IIRC) speakers. A pretty decent stereo system at the time.

The 12-GA and the Monster cables produced no audible difference. I could hear a difference between the Litz wire and the other cables, but I couldn't tell you if it was better or worse -- just different. I can't explain the difference (certainly none of the marketing hype concerning Litz wire at the time makes any sense to me today), but there was definitely a difference.

Today I wouldn't hear a difference; but back then my hearing was actually pretty good.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2013, 02:02:45 PM »

Most cases of noise in hifi systems caused by speaker wire were related to marginal hifi amplifier designs. The hifi side is/was flakier than even value pro amps.

Shielded wire has more capacitance which "could" lead a marginal amp to oscillate. While the oscillation is generally above audio frequency sometimes you will hear noise or even radio, until the amp releases it's smoke.

Zip cord does not have much loop area between the conductors to pick up noise from magnetic fields. Twisted pair is better than loose single wires but both the loudspeaker load and amplifier output are relatively low impedance, so noise pick up is generally not an issue. I have seen a few obscure cases where a speaker wire picked up a high RF field and that got rectified by the amplifier output stage, but that is pretty rare.

I stand with zip cord recommendation, and keeping the wire runs relatively short.   If the wires were short I wouldn't expect any audible difference. If the wire length and gauge allows enough resistance build up, it can alter passive crossover tuning, and interact with the speaker impedance changing with frequency to cause response errors.

The hifi wire business is a stupidity tax.

JR

PS: I recall years ago on this forum wrestling with a true believer who "heard" an improvement from his exotic speaker cable. After a little back and forth we determined that the resistance of the relatively small gauge speaker wire had altered the frequency response of his particular speakers in a way he liked. There is an expectation bias with expensive doo-dads to interpret any difference as an improvement.

I stand by the zip cord. I've owned and now own some top class systems and have never had an issue, picked up noise, or sacraficed tone or clarity. Actually, many well known and highly respected hi-fi speaker manufactureres ship zip cord with their cabinets, and to say zip cord will induce noise or is a major cause for concern is just crapola.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2013, 02:04:04 PM »


I stand by the zip cord. I've owned and now own some top class systems and have never had an issue, picked up noise, or sacraficed tone or clarity. Actually, many well known and highly respected hi-fi speaker manufactureres ship zip cord with their cabinets, and to say zip cord will induce noise or is a major cause for concern is just crapola.

But my MajikQuartz® Cable Impurity Dampers is fo' real, fo' sure. ;)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 02:06:14 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 02:12:28 PM »

But my MajikQuartz® Cable Impurity Dampers is fo' real, fo' sure. ;)

But really unnecessary.

All you really need to do is run your cables through the washing machine once per week for really clean sound.

The fresh scent tide seems to give the vest transient response.
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Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Re: Speaker Wire for Hi-Fi system
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 02:12:28 PM »


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