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Author Topic: Rider language  (Read 1345 times)

Robert Piascik

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Rider language
« on: February 27, 2013, 01:12:38 pm »

I am a small supplier mostly doing local work but get the occasional festival with a regional or small national act.

Here is language from a rider I am looking at currently:

"Both front of house and monitor consoles must be of professional nature, fully functional and consist of forty (40) input channels and four (4) stereo return channels."

Followed by...

"House console and monitor console needs to have a minimum of 32 input channels..."

and this is followed by an input list with 22 inputs.

What am I missing here?
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 01:17:09 pm »

Perhaps they are assuming a 32 or 40 channel console will have the aux and eq features they need that might be lacking on some 24 channel consoles.

Geri O'Neil

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 01:19:54 pm »

Not entirely atypical, but you can handle this a couple of different ways...

(A) Call the band and go over the rider with whoever is wearing the production manager hat in that band (in one case today for me, it was the >>GASP<< bass player).

(B) Bring 40-channel consoles.

I advise the first option.

Geri O
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 01:27:05 pm »

I am a small supplier mostly doing local work but get the occasional festival with a regional or small national act.

Here is language from a rider I am looking at currently:

"Both front of house and monitor consoles must be of professional nature, fully functional and consist of forty (40) input channels and four (4) stereo return channels."

Followed by...

"House console and monitor console needs to have a minimum of 32 input channels..."

and this is followed by an input list with 22 inputs.

What am I missing here?

Typically the request for 40 (or 48) inputs and 4 stereo returns is to eliminate bottom feeders.  Riders often have boilerplate language, and are supplied by management.

Call and advance it.

Has anyone seen a rider listing a PM3K as acceptable lately?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 01:44:35 pm »


Has anyone seen a rider listing a PM3K as acceptable lately?

Yes.  Once in the last 12 months.n  I think the rider was dated 2006.  PM4Ks more often.

These are usually preceded by the phrase "If none of the digital mixers listed above are available....."
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Martin Gonzalez

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 02:47:03 pm »

"House console and monitor console needs to have a minimum of 32 input channels..."

and this is followed by an input list with 22 inputs.

What am I missing here?

Does the show have a support act? Perhaps they often have local support and want to make sure that if it's an analog board they don't have to share channels.
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Lee Brenkman

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 03:12:20 pm »

Riders often have boilerplate language, and are supplied by management.

Call and advance it.

Has anyone seen a rider listing a PM3K as acceptable lately?

Indeed, many agents and management companies just "cut and paste" whole blocks of text from the rider for their most successful act (either current or in the past) and put it in ALL of their contract riders.

Yes, CALL and advance it.  When you talk to the person(s) who will actually be doing the show you often get a clear, realistic perspective.   Sometimes not though, if the artist is an "on the way up or on the way down" delusional "superstar"

I have, in the last six months, seen one, and only one, rider that listed a Yamaha PM3K as acceptable.
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Jason Raboin

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 03:38:37 pm »

An agent or manager probably pieced together the rider by cutting and pasting sections of old riders or possible even riders from other acts they work with. 

I recently saw a rider come through with some parts that I had written 10 years ago.  It then went on to ask for different things in another section and had an input list that didn't correspond to either.  It would be easier if agents didn't send out tech riders at all.
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dick rees

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 05:22:28 pm »

An agent or manager probably pieced together the rider by cutting and pasting sections of old riders or possible even riders from other acts they work with. 

I recently saw a rider come through with some parts that I had written 10 years ago.  It then went on to ask for different things in another section and had an input list that didn't correspond to either.  It would be easier if agents didn't send out tech riders at all.

I just got back from a meeting with a group for whom I'll be helping with sound tomorrow.  There were nine performers and a composer.  None of them had any idea what they needed, what they were bringing (cello player on tour didn't bring his DPA mic......what, it's too big?) or what if any back-line had been requested from the venue.  I don't know who's handling their tour arrangements (singers husband????), but it's certainly not an agency.

I was right there with them and they were close to clueless.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Rider language
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 05:34:06 pm »

Twice this year, I have given the stage tech an input list that is 4 channels long and had it be messed up when I walked up to the desk.

And what is it about horn players not being able to make soundcheck. Every time I have a band with a horn section they are no where to be found for soundcheck. And that included the band where the horn player was the band leader.
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