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Author Topic: Add another sub?  (Read 2031 times)

Mike Reigh

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 05:27:34 pm »

What about as a center fill sub?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 06:07:42 pm »

What about as a center fill sub?

You don't remove the interactions, you MOVE them.

Make the oddball sub a drummer's monitor sub or sell it and get another of what already is owned.
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Jon C Thomas

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 08:22:53 am »

What about as a center fill sub?
Bass is omnidirectional so all you will do is experiment with phase and nulls from speaker interactions. May work in some rooms but coupling is generally preferred for a smooth response and maximum output.
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David Parker

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 08:52:45 am »

Code: [Select]
it becomes very easy to damage something because of major cancellations through differences in time arrival.
Has that ever happened?

my subs were all the same, but I was not hi-passing my tops, I ran the tops full range and added subs. I got a lot of cancellation and tore up way too many 18s trying to get the bass like I wanted it. I hi-passed the tops properly with a crossover and never tore up another 18 and had more bass and tighter bass. It is possible to align the subs and tops in this configuration and get them to play well together, but it doesn't happen all by itself, and the results WERE disastrous.

mixing subs in and of itself will not tear anything up. The destruction comes from driving subs ever harder to try and overcome cancellations.
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George Dougherty

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 03:57:24 pm »

Yeah, it probably won't sound right, but with so many variables like the room, sub placement, etc. you never know.  That's why I am from the "give it a try" school of thought.  We've all been surprised by things that should or shouldn't work!
Like others have said, no, it's only when you overdrive it, but frankly given the output of the Yorkville's I wouldn't expect the QSC to add anything much in the way of overall output anyway and with all the work needed to align the subs (for every different configuration and placement) to minimize the problems it will undoubtedly cause it's just not worth the effort.  It can work okay as a drum monitor because the output needed to create enough volume at the drummer's position is lower than the output you'd run to cover a large room.
I'm all for playing with positioning of subs and trying all sorts of things that may or may not work.  This for me falls into the category of "I'd like white speakers, how much black paint do I need to put on them to get them to look white?"
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Greg Percy

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 05:28:33 pm »

Yep--Kinda what I thought---and I don't have any white paint...I knew I'd get some interesting ideas though...
Thanks

GP
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Josh Billings

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 05:32:22 pm »

Yeah, it probably won't sound right, but with so many variables like the room, sub placement, etc. you never know.  That's why I am from the "give it a try" school of thought.  We've all been surprised by things that should or shouldn't work!

I agree, give it a try. It may turn out good...but BEST solution is to get more matching subs.

Josh
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EvanKirkendall

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 01:45:47 am »

(I have a Beh. dcx2496, so I can run an extra sub channel from there)

Every single person in this thread missed this line. You've got processing available, you can make it work! I do this on a regular basis, with great results: http://soundforums.net/blogs/evan-kirkendall/22-fun-phase.html


If you don't have the measuring tools available, it just takes a little listening. There's 2 simple ways to do it:

First, put the QSC sub on one send, and the USC1 on another. Put the usual processing in for your USC1, and leave the QSC flat.

1. Place the subs side by side. Play some music through them both. Start adding delay time on the QSC until the low end gets louder. Find a sweet spot that seems to really sound punchy and full. Now add like 3-6ms of delay and see if it gets quieter. If it does, you know you've found the sweet spot, if not, keep trying until you can get it.

or

2. Invert the polarity on one of the subs. Again, add delay time on the QSC sub, but this time the sweet spot is when all of the low end disappears(or just sounds really strange when you put your head between the 2 subs). Now flip the polarity back to normal- the low end should get a lot louder. If it does, you win. If not, start over and keep trying.

I'd imagine 7ms or so of delay would get you close. Remember- this business is all about experimenting and learning!


(but the easy solution would in fact be to buy another USC1 and sell the QSC sub, but what fun is that?)


Evan
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Art Welter

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Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 01:41:55 pm »

Every single person in this thread missed this line. You've got processing available, you can make it work! I do this on a regular basis, with great results: http://soundforums.net/blogs/evan-kirkendall/22-fun-phase.html

I'd imagine 7ms or so of delay would get you close. Remember- this business is all about experimenting and learning!
All very good information, and the same procedure should also be done to phase align the top cabinets to the subs, the tops will probably also require a similar amount of delay.

Most PAs that I hear lacking "punch" have failed to align the tops to the subs.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Re: Add another sub?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 02:08:01 pm »


Most PAs that I hear lacking "punch" have failed to align the tops to the subs.

It seems to me the band between 100 and 200 hz is usually the most out of wack on these systems.
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