ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: best mic from my collection for feedback  (Read 12625 times)

Tim Perry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
  • Utica-Rome NY
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 11:39:51 PM »

Thanks again everyone.
The gig was earlier today and in large part to information received here, it was the most successful yet. This is the 4th year I've done this gig and only my 8th live gig total. I bought equipment and have been learning "on the job" and it hasn't been pretty, but everyone is grateful to just have a professional system so I've been lucky.

Learning by doing is and effective teacher.

I have something called Sussical The Musical coming up next week.  Probably will have 12 to 18 wireless plus the usual PCC  all trying to overcome the orchestra in a shallow pit.

Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23743
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 11:48:41 PM »

Learning by doing is and effective teacher.

I have something called Sussical The Musical coming up next week.  Probably will have 12 to 18 wireless plus the usual PCC  all trying to overcome the orchestra in a shallow pit.

Oh the Thinks you can Think!

I like that little show... and when designing it the first (and second) times I was struck by just how faithfully minimalist the music and lyrics were.  Very much in keeping with the Doctor's intentions and giving me the inspiration to make each iteration of a song ever so slightly different.

I think the company had 14 wireless for the show, and the director changed some blocking that resulted in kids with one or 2 lines standing next to a character that had a mic; 3 PCC 160 and 3 AT853 for upstage ensemble pickup.
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23743
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2013, 11:55:24 PM »

I have had nothing but problems with lav mics.  I know they are nice and unobtrusive, but boy do they want to feedback!

I used them a few years ago in a wedding.  The bride and groom wanted them for their vows (outside wedding with around 500 people).  I got some decent volume out of them, but it was a real challenge.  Also, when we were doing the rehearsal, I found that when they got close to one another, it caused feedback right away.  I had to watch for the "Big Kiss" and drop the faders clean off before they got close ;)

And I love lavalier mics (well, okay, I'm lying just a little).  And I put them on presenters that work downstage of the PA, in the audience area, for 600-1000 folks, classroom style.  Yep, in front of the PA.

The secret is good system work (design, deployment, alignment and EQ) before patching a receiver.  The techniques that go into that come from lots of doing stuff the hard way and then figuring out better ways.  IOW, practice.

I'm a big proponent of actually setting up equipment and experimenting.  It helps to have an assistant who can wear a lav, read a script of some kind, move around...  while you make changes and listen.  Nothing replaces hands-on time with gear, and getting that time outside of shows is important.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 12:50:24 AM by Tim McCulloch »
Logged
"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2013, 08:44:49 AM »

I found that when they got close to one another, it caused feedback right away.  I had to watch for the "Big Kiss" and drop the faders clean off before they got close ;)


Ø
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Tim Perry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
  • Utica-Rome NY
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2013, 04:31:16 PM »

Logged

Brian Jones

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • Modesto, CA
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2013, 09:49:23 PM »

I have had nothing but problems with lav mics.  I know they are nice and unobtrusive, but boy do they want to feedback!

I used them a few years ago in a wedding.  The bride and groom wanted them for their vows (outside wedding with around 500 people).  I got some decent volume out of them, but it was a real challenge.  Also, when we were doing the rehearsal, I found that when they got close to one another, it caused feedback right away.  I had to watch for the "Big Kiss" and drop the faders clean off before they got close ;)

I think I mentioned the Dave Rat video I watched talking about how to ring out a system. It mirrors what you're saying in different words. His approach was, channel strip EQ to correct microphone anomalies or other coloration at the individual input level; processing equipment to correct for loudspeakers (and I suppose to a lesser extent, amps); and GEQ for room correction. With this philosophy, when one enters a new venue, the room correction is all that is left to do because you already have your channel strips set for the particular inputs selected and your loudspeakers are producing as true a reproduction as they are capable of. Therefore, any adjustment needed to be made must be due to the room.

I don't have an RTA or reference mic (I believe I posted a separate thread asking about that) so the little bit of monitor correction I made was using a GEQ... the best tool I had immediately available. I do own a Behringer DCX2496 but I hadn't thought about using it till it was too late (it was still back home over 100 miles away). In the future, I'll probably use the DCX2496 to adjust the monitors since my K10's I use for mains are pretty good out of the box and the monitors are crap. I'll get an RTA and reference mic probably before my next gig and use them for this purpose. Also, I'll pick a better environment than my garage to make the adjustment. I do "know" too that a flat RTA is just a starting point (albeit, pretty good one) and I will use my ears to determine if any further adjustment should be made.

As far as using the channel strip to correct microphones, I have to admit I'm a little in the woods here and don't see how 4 bands can do the trick when a 15 band EQ is considered worthless. I know I have sweepable mids, but it still seems like not enough tool for the job IMO. It makes me wonder about going with the Behringer X32 Producer when it comes out (rack mountable) which has PEQ, gating, compression on every channel. On the other hand, I know my MixWiz is a reliable quality mid range product so I'd like to work this out with what I have while adding perhaps a little processing here and there. I have a lot of other things going on so I'm holding off on purchases right now, but I've gotten a couple of people offering equipment for sale via PM and when I start pulling the trigger, I'll try to nab those deals first most likely.
Logged

Tim Perry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1251
  • Utica-Rome NY
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2013, 10:26:03 PM »

A DEQ 2496 would be greatly preferable to a DCX 2496 for this purpose. 

A flat EQ (as displayed by an RTA)  on a speaker system is not a starting point, its a disaster.

A 15 band EQ is not preferred for maximizing loudness in in speaker systems as the width of adjustment is much greater then is desirable.  As a general tone shaper it can be OK.

A parametric EQ, once you get used to it is simply a faster and easier way to get the results you desire. 

A lot of us here didn't have access to advise or information much beyond what we could read in the Yamaha Sound Reenforcement Handbook. A lot of stuff we were told by others turned out to be just plain wrong. I hope you will integrate what you learn from this site with your real world experience.  I know I have.
Logged

Brian Jones

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
  • Modesto, CA
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2013, 12:21:09 AM »

1) A DEQ 2496 would be greatly preferable to a DCX 2496 for this purpose. 

2) A flat EQ (as displayed by an RTA)  on a speaker system is not a starting point, its a disaster.

3) A 15 band EQ is not preferred for maximizing loudness in in speaker systems as the width of adjustment is much greater then is desirable.  As a general tone shaper it can be OK.

4) A parametric EQ, once you get used to it is simply a faster and easier way to get the results you desire. 

5) A lot of us here didn't have access to advise or information much beyond what we could read in the Yamaha Sound Reenforcement Handbook. A lot of stuff we were told by others turned out to be just plain wrong. I hope you will integrate what you learn from this site with your real world experience.  I know I have.

I numberered your points for easy reference...

1) understood and agreed

2) don't understand at all... I understand one might want some coloration but flat is supposed to "true" and from there one would shape things to taste. Am I missing something big here?

3) I don't think ANY EQ is a tool for increasing loudness. The approach I've heard described that makes sense to me is to mostly use an EQ to cut much more than to boost.

4) I can see that re: PEQ. And maybe with something like that DEQ2496, with visual feedback to reinforce what I'm hearing, I could learn to use one much faster.

5) Yes, I try to use my real world experience, logic, theory and everything else that makes sense to use, to make things better. I still need to pick up the Yamaha book. I've been meaning to buy a copy for a long time now. I have what I guess is a poor substitute from what I've heard.

And I'm never afraid to admit I'm wrong. I know that false pride won't win me many accolades for my work but excellent results will. I'm just now starting to see that approach pay off as others noticed the vast improvement over even just last year's event, not to mention my rather dismal first attempts. I know I have a long way to go before I feel I am in the ranks of the pro. I'm not sure I'll ever be a pro from the standpoint of getting paid to do this, so I'm talking about knowledge and skill level when I say that.
Logged

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2013, 08:15:37 AM »

3) I don't think ANY EQ is a tool for increasing loudness. The approach I've heard described that makes sense to me is to mostly use an EQ to cut much more than to boost.

What he said was to "maximize loudness", not "increasing loudness".  The use of the term "loudness" is unfortunate, but what he was saying is the EQ is used to maximize Gain Before Feedback, otherwise known as headroom.  This allows you to turn it up "louder" before the threshold of feedback is reached.  This is done by using the various bands on the EQ to attenuate the "hot" frequencies in your system setup.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Scott Wagner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1020
  • Richmond, VA
Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2013, 09:04:44 AM »

A flat EQ (as displayed by an RTA)  on a speaker system is not a starting point, its a disaster.
don't understand at all... I understand one might want some coloration but flat is supposed to "true" and from there one would shape things to taste. Am I missing something big here?
Flat is a good starting point; however, flat (as displayed by an RTA) is a disaster (usually).  If you were using the RTA in an anechoic chamber with a perfect measurement mic, then you can trust it.  The reality is that what an RTA displays in the world is a long way from the actual speaker response.  The tool you want for this task is a dual FFT measurement system (SMAART, SysTune, etc.) and a crap-load of training (with subsequent experience) to learn how to understand what the measurement is telling you.  The RTA is the wrong tool for the job, which is precisely why Auto EQ systems don't work.  RTAs can be useful, but not in this context.
Logged
Scott Wagner
Big Nickel Audio

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: best mic from my collection for feedback
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2013, 09:04:44 AM »


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.051 seconds with 22 queries.