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Author Topic: Sub Placement for EDM event  (Read 5404 times)

Andrei Panait

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Sub Placement for EDM event
« on: February 11, 2013, 08:47:02 pm »

From what I've been reading we have a frankensystem here, we do free bush parties and such but we also do indoor events. Now we've just added a few things to our system and we have an event this week-end in a big restaurant (everything will be removed to make one big dance floor). The type of music played is mostly deep dubstep, lots of sub bass (ie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpzzGXBW4GA ).

Our subs are
2 yorkville LS1004 dual 18" each ran by a QSC MX1500
2 home made dual 15" with evx-150a drivers each ran by a ashly fet-2000m
2 home made single 18" about 400 watts, ran by a crown xls 802
1 JBL mp418sp active 18"

I'm going to bi-amp our tops and run our dbx 234XL in 3way mode. But we also have 2 other cross-overs, a behringer and a Audiophony, I'm thinking of running the dual 15"s on a second cross-over and have them be low-mids- kinda deal, maybe 50/60hz to 150, and below that for the yorkvilles.

I've attached awesome paint drawings of our system, the venue and how I would place them. I don't know if there is a better sub placement than what we have in mind, there will be about 4-500 people in the room. I know it'll probably be hard to give advice without having specs for our home brew stuff, I've included a picture with everything in there except the Yorkville ls1004s, there's a spec sheet for those here http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?cat=2&type=29&id=128 .

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 09:04:45 pm by Andrei Panait »
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 11:12:05 pm »

From what I've been reading we have a frankensystem here, we do free bush parties and such but we also do indoor events. Now we've just added a few things to our system and we have an event this week-end in a big restaurant (everything will be removed to make one big dance floor). The type of music played is mostly deep dubstep, lots of sub bass (ie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpzzGXBW4GA ).

Our subs are
2 yorkville LS1004 dual 18" each ran by a QSC MX1500
2 home made dual 15" with evx-150a drivers each ran by a ashly fet-2000m
2 home made single 18" about 400 watts, ran by a crown xls 802
1 JBL mp418sp active 18"

I'm going to bi-amp our tops and run our dbx 234XL in 3way mode. But we also have 2 other cross-overs, a behringer and a Audiophony, I'm thinking of running the dual 15"s on a second cross-over and have them be low-mids- kinda deal, maybe 50/60hz to 150, and below that for the yorkvilles.

I've attached awesome paint drawings of our system, the venue and how I would place them. I don't know if there is a better sub placement than what we have in mind, there will be about 4-500 people in the room. I know it'll probably be hard to give advice without having specs for our home brew stuff, I've included a picture with everything in there except the Yorkville ls1004s, there's a spec sheet for those here http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?cat=2&type=29&id=128 .

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

I don't think anybody here is going to be able to make any recommendations here. Pick the best set of subs, pick the best set of tops, sell the remaining lot to finance getting more gear that matches what you decide to keep.
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 09:39:12 am »

I don't know if it was your intention to spread the speakers down the side of the dance floor or not, but if it was that's a bad idea keep them clustered together in a big pile as close to a wall as possible. The DJ doesn't have to be behind the stack either he could be beside it.
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Tony Mitchell

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 01:07:53 pm »

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Your audience is up to 500 people, if you dump it all in a big pile as per the drawing, unless you are close to the pile stacks, it will sound muffled and muddy.   Given the "dubstep" genre you're planning to inflict on those gracing the restaurant, that may however be a blessing.

Seriously, you're very limited as to what you can do with what you've got, however start by getting the tops up high (safely) and pointing them down (safely).

Rather than putting a pair of tops together, perhaps look at using a pair as rear fills, again up nice & high and pointed down (safely).


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dick rees

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 01:30:04 pm »

From what I've been reading we have a frankensystem here,.....

I think you should re-post this on the ProNoiseWeb.

Seriously, though:

You'll have plenty of volume, but it looks like you won't have anything that plays much below about 48hz.  With EDM, you're going to want something that will go lower than that, at least another half octave.

Don't push them past the point of no return trying to get them to give you something they can't.  Check out this thread on EDM LF:

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=1019.0
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 01:46:45 pm by dick rees »
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Stu McDoniel

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 11:11:15 pm »

From what I've been reading we have a frankensystem here, we do free bush parties and such but we also do indoor events. Now we've just added a few things to our system and we have an event this week-end in a big restaurant (everything will be removed to make one big dance floor). The type of music played is mostly deep dubstep, lots of sub bass (ie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpzzGXBW4GA ).

Our subs are
2 yorkville LS1004 dual 18" each ran by a QSC MX1500
2 home made dual 15" with evx-150a drivers each ran by a ashly fet-2000m
2 home made single 18" about 400 watts, ran by a crown xls 802
1 JBL mp418sp active 18"

I'm going to bi-amp our tops and run our dbx 234XL in 3way mode. But we also have 2 other cross-overs, a behringer and a Audiophony, I'm thinking of running the dual 15"s on a second cross-over and have them be low-mids- kinda deal, maybe 50/60hz to 150, and below that for the yorkvilles.

I've attached awesome paint drawings of our system, the venue and how I would place them. I don't know if there is a better sub placement than what we have in mind, there will be about 4-500 people in the room. I know it'll probably be hard to give advice without having specs for our home brew stuff, I've included a picture with everything in there except the Yorkville ls1004s, there's a spec sheet for those here http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?cat=2&type=29&id=128 .

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Do you realize the abuse you are gonna get posting this system on this forum? 
I would surround the dance floor with your top cabs on sticks (speaker stands).  One top per corner of the dance
area and facing into the center of the dance area.   You have WAY to many sub cabs for the amount of tops you have.
The Yorkville subs put together in one spot coupled together with MORE power would work well for you.
The QSC 1500 is really a nice amplifier.  I have one of those amps and it has been kicking butt for 20 years with no issues.
HOWEVER, that amp is underpowered for your subs.  I would recommend you get yourself a power amp that will
give you at least 1000watts per channel RMS into those subs.
By using one set of all those sub boxes you are going to have more control and better overall performance for your rig.
Keep the Yorkville dual 18s, and invest in some high quality tops for your system.   Even a nice set of Elite Yorkville
tops would give you nice fidelity.  Sell off the rest of the sub cabs and tops you have and then take that money
and invest in some high quality tops to go with your Yorkville subs.
Good luck on your adventure.
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Richard Turner

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2013, 11:27:59 pm »

+1 on finding some decent full range cabs, Yorkville ef508, e152 for single 15 or even antique ex1000, ex2000 2x 15 would be a step up
the ls1004 are good, you just need an amp to drive them, the xls 802 would do ok for full range tops

the fet 2000m is servacible for bingo calling or canned music on a radio volume, 400w/ch 4 ohm 250:1 damping,  might work if you used those small tops for the dj monitor, pair the powered jbl with them for the dj monitor

leave the evx 15 boxes home, they wont help you at all with the dubstep, you'll likely eq out anything they would add to the 1004's

the mx1500 is a good amp but theres better stuff to be found

find a decent quality crossover or if yo udo find a set of yorkie tops you can likely pick up a matching yorkie crossover on the cheap if you cannot afford a full on processor.




From what I've been reading we have a frankensystem here, we do free bush parties and such but we also do indoor events. Now we've just added a few things to our system and we have an event this week-end in a big restaurant (everything will be removed to make one big dance floor). The type of music played is mostly deep dubstep, lots of sub bass (ie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpzzGXBW4GA ).

Our subs are
2 yorkville LS1004 dual 18" each ran by a QSC MX1500
2 home made dual 15" with evx-150a drivers each ran by a ashly fet-2000m
2 home made single 18" about 400 watts, ran by a crown xls 802
1 JBL mp418sp active 18"

I'm going to bi-amp our tops and run our dbx 234XL in 3way mode. But we also have 2 other cross-overs, a behringer and a Audiophony, I'm thinking of running the dual 15"s on a second cross-over and have them be low-mids- kinda deal, maybe 50/60hz to 150, and below that for the yorkvilles.

I've attached awesome paint drawings of our system, the venue and how I would place them. I don't know if there is a better sub placement than what we have in mind, there will be about 4-500 people in the room. I know it'll probably be hard to give advice without having specs for our home brew stuff, I've included a picture with everything in there except the Yorkville ls1004s, there's a spec sheet for those here http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?cat=2&type=29&id=128 .

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 05:22:13 pm »

Not impressed, guys, that you feel the need to make an issue of my name. is it because i called you meanies for your picking on an EDM sound engineer?

No, it's because your name looks like an internet handle, and if you had been reading this site more than a day or two you would realize we have to enforce the name policy on a daily basis because of people who cannot follow one simple rule.

If you name is truly "Flow In", then make your display name say that.  It's not hard.  Hell, even people without college degrees are able to do this, easily.
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Sharyn Ferrick

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2013, 08:48:21 pm »

  we have to enforce the name policy on a daily basis because of people who cannot follow one simple rule.

At what point does someone realize that with a continual problem with new users not signing up correctly, that the system needs to be changed in order to make it clear when you sign up.  With all the additional time of telling the users to fix their signup, all the additional storage and band width used, cannot someone find a way to just fix the sign up system???

Sharyn 
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Christopher Montgomery "Monty"

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Re: Sub Placement for EDM event
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 03:57:39 pm »

In this thread I haven't seen anyone address the real issue with system design yet.

Andrei, when you mix and match subs (or any cabinets) the largest potential problem you are going to have is cancellation.  Which basically means 1 + 1 does NOT equal 2.  Sometimes 1 + 1 equals ZERO.  If you understand what phase coherence is then this is easy to understand.  If not then I can give you some quick easy advice to help with your system.  Ideally you do these measurements with an audio analyzer and some one who is trained to use it, and when you find how far out the phase is, you delay (and EQ) the speakers to line up.

I know your show has happened by now, but hopefully you can use this for future set ups. 

When you turn on your PA you should turn on one sub at a time.  Every time you turn one on you should notice an increase in your low end.  If you don't hear a difference (and it is actually on) it ISN'T adding.  Or worse, if you hear a drop in your low end, it's cancelling.  Every time you turn on a sub it should add.  If it doesn't, it isn't helping your sound system, it's making it worse.


I have designed PA's for Dubstep for crowds usually from 4,000 to 12,000 and mixed the shows.  Two of those shows were for Skrillex.  For that we had 30 double 18's and the phase coherence was very good ;)
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