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Author Topic: IEM system setup recommendation  (Read 20606 times)

Frank DeWitt

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2012, 02:05:12 PM »

Right, but how is that any different than simply giving me control over their entire mix?

That's the problem I have. The band leader wants individual control over each instrument, including individual drums (for instance he may want the kick drum but not the over heads).

If he was okay with me controlling the mix, we wouldn't need a system like the M-38s because we have enough AUX sends. The problem is finding a way to give the musicians control.

You could build a SAC system just for the IEMs.  It would give the band leader all the inputs to build his mix, but there is a bigger problem.
The best sound is in the house seats and is built by the sound guy.  The sound on the platform will always be inferior.  Those on the platform need to understand that they are there to lead the congregation in worship and the IEMs are there to give them the beet and the place, not beautiful music.   For really good music, sit with the congregation.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2012, 02:06:29 PM »

You could build a SAC system just for the IEMs.  It would give the band leader all the inputs to build his mix, but there is a bigger problem.
The best sound is in the house seats and is built by the sound guy.  The sound on the platform will always be inferior.  Those on the platform need to understand that they are there to lead the congregation in worship and the IEMs are there to give them the beet and the place, not beautiful music.   For really good music, sit with the congregation.

This is a very hard thing to convince a guitar player of.  :-\
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Tim Padrick

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2012, 06:54:20 PM »

IMHO it would be silly to consider any solution other than the Roland personal mixers.    As was previously stated, get as many as the budget will allow and put the most important IEM users on them.

The Rolls have no protective limiters, and as such I would not use them.  There are other wired options that have limiters: : http://www.rockonaudio.com/?page=PKG-001, this: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-P4HW-Hardwired-Bodypack-for-PSM-400-Systems?sku=243606, and this http://www.peavey.com/products/accessories/power/index.cfm/item/117093/number/03001320/HB2HeadPhoneAmplifier.cfm (although the limiter is a bit too accessible for my taste).

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Frank DeWitt

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2012, 07:07:08 PM »

This is a very hard thing to convince a guitar player of.  :-\

You have a problem, BUT it is not a technical problem.  I don't think $5K or $100Kwill fix it.  The band leader needs to decide to be a band leader.  He needs to give up being a sound guy and, give up mixing, He even needs to give up having a great mix.

This problem can be solved but it is a spiritual problem.

I am blessed with a number of really talented people on our worship team.  At least 3 of them know sound better then I do. They know it, and I know it.  They also understand that I am the only one standing in the right place to build a good mix.

BTW I have demonstrated this to them by playing a CD and having them listen to it in the house and then walk up to the spot where they play.  It is not the same where they play, and it is not as good.  Factor in the people beside you running the mix by adding there own sound and it just doesn't sound good IN the band.

Playing in a band is like making a cake.  The leader and players get broken eggs. The house gets cake.  If he wants cake, then sit down.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2012, 07:46:13 PM »

You have a problem, BUT it is not a technical problem.  I don't think $5K or $100Kwill fix it.  The band leader needs to decide to be a band leader.  He needs to give up being a sound guy and, give up mixing, He even needs to give up having a great mix.

This problem can be solved but it is a spiritual problem.

I am blessed with a number of really talented people on our worship team.  At least 3 of them know sound better then I do. They know it, and I know it.  They also understand that I am the only one standing in the right place to build a good mix.

BTW I have demonstrated this to them by playing a CD and having them listen to it in the house and then walk up to the spot where they play.  It is not the same where they play, and it is not as good.  Factor in the people beside you running the mix by adding there own sound and it just doesn't sound good IN the band.

Playing in a band is like making a cake.  The leader and players get broken eggs. The house gets cake.  If he wants cake, then sit down.

Well, either he's going to have to come to that conclusion on his own, or someone other than me is going to have to explain it to him.

He's an associate Pastor and a member of the church leadership, I'm just a volunteer without any authority over anyone. It's not my place to tell him what he can't have.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2012, 07:50:18 PM »

IMHO it would be silly to consider any solution other than the Roland personal mixers.    As was previously stated, get as many as the budget will allow and put the most important IEM users on them.

The Rolls have no protective limiters, and as such I would not use them.  There are other wired options that have limiters: : http://www.rockonaudio.com/?page=PKG-001, this: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-P4HW-Hardwired-Bodypack-for-PSM-400-Systems?sku=243606, and this http://www.peavey.com/products/accessories/power/index.cfm/item/117093/number/03001320/HB2HeadPhoneAmplifier.cfm (although the limiter is a bit too accessible for my taste).

The limiter on the M-48s is as "accessible" as the one on that Peavey unit, I'd personally rather have everyone on PSMs where the limiter is hard-wired and not adjustable.

Out of every system I've looked at for personal mixing, I like the Movek Mymix best when it comes to cost vs performance vs ease of integration. Harder to integrate than the M-48 but I actually like the interface better and it's quite a bit cheaper.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2012, 08:45:02 PM »

Well, either he's going to have to come to that conclusion on his own, or someone other than me is going to have to explain it to him.

He's an associate Pastor and a member of the church leadership, I'm just a volunteer without any authority over anyone. It's not my place to tell him what he can't have.

I understand.  Lets go over his head.  Lets pray for him.
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2012, 09:17:51 PM »

You have a problem, BUT it is not a technical problem.  I don't think $5K or $100Kwill fix it.  The band leader needs to decide to be a band leader.  He needs to give up being a sound guy and, give up mixing, He even needs to give up having a great mix.

This problem can be solved but it is a spiritual problem.

I am blessed with a number of really talented people on our worship team.  At least 3 of them know sound better then I do. They know it, and I know it.  They also understand that I am the only one standing in the right place to build a good mix.

BTW I have demonstrated this to them by playing a CD and having them listen to it in the house and then walk up to the spot where they play.  It is not the same where they play, and it is not as good.  Factor in the people beside you running the mix by adding there own sound and it just doesn't sound good IN the band.

Playing in a band is like making a cake.  The leader and players get broken eggs. The house gets cake.  If he wants cake, then sit down.

+1

I run sound for a worship band, our equipment is very limited. Our monitors consist of 3 small guitar/keyboard amps. It doesn't work very good but it, most of the time, let's the musicians hear themselves. Also we've only got only 2 monitor mix channels coming from the FOH boards auxes. We're working on getting a couple of the band members on(cheap) wired IEMs and getting some "real" monitor speakers for the rest.

That said there aren't too many complaints and the band sounds great in the house.

Sent from my Milestone X using Tapatalk 2

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Jason Lucas

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2012, 12:31:55 AM »

I've gotten very few complaints in the past 6 months or so. It sounded great tonight.

But there have been plenty of times where I've turned the cymbals or the guitars all the way down on the mixer and they're still louder than I want them to be because of their amp levels (or in the case of they cymbals how hard they're being hit). So I'd really like to get the amps off stage and get more dampening on the drums.

The problem is a lot of the time the band really can't hear themselves that well. Several members of the band have no real monitor at all. For instance, the bass player has no bass amp, so he has to listen to himself through the sub and mains in order to hear. The lead male vocalist (who is also the band leader and lead guitarist) doesn't use a wedge or IEMs and simply listens to his voice through the mains.

There are between 1 and 3 background vocalists each service but they only have one wedge and it's off to one side, and I'm pretty sure they can't hear themselves very well, especially after listening to some multi-track recordings we've done (the background singers sounded awful, even though they sound just fine live).
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Jason Lucas

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Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 01:35:36 AM »

So, we've been seriously considering selling the Roland to get a Behringer X32 and P16 monitoring system. If we get enough from the Roland the Behringer system wouldn't cost anything.

Most of the other options we have are either crazy expensive or really impractical for us.

To have just one Roland personal mixer would be over $2500. I know a lot of people have suggested "buying what we can" from the Roland system but our budget is $0 right now so we'd have to do a big campaign and a few fundraisers just to get enough for one Roland mixer, let alone 8.

For a little under $4k we could get 5 Aviom mixers (assuming we daisy chain instead of using an A-net distributor).

I even suggested the idea of getting a Presonus 24.4.2 mixer and putting it on stage and then having the musicians control it with iPads/iPhones/iPod Touches.

However, we'd really like to avoid having an analog split, and that eliminates a lot of options and drives the cost up.

So, still not sure what we're going to do, but there's a pretty strong possibility of going the Behringer route.
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: IEM system setup recommendation
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2013, 01:35:36 AM »


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