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Author Topic: New Behringer PMP2000 mixer tripping offline using NL2 speaker cables - Help  (Read 1355 times)

Ron Stroope

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Greetings,

Need help in understanding speakon connectors and the PMP 2000.  Understand that the manual states that NL4's are used on the outputs. Bought both mixer and NL2 speakon to 1/4" cables recently from a nameless no customer service nationwide chain.  NL2 to 1/4" is all they carry, not NL4's.  Problem is the mixer trips offline when the std 2 way 8 ohm CV speakers are connected to left & right.  I assume that the problem my be using the NL2 instead of NL4 connectors.

Nubie here, :-\

Ron Stroope
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Robert Piascik

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Speakon NL4 connectors can accommodate 4 conductors wired to pin 1+/1- and 2+/2- and are typically used to carry two signals (usually a high and low) to a bi-ampable speaker box. An NL-2 would be the same connector with only 2 conductor wire carrying a full-range signal to a full-range cabinet. The connectors look the same (and actually are the same) except that the wire is different.

Not sure what you mean by "the mixer trips offline when the std 2 way 8 ohm CV speakers are connected to left & right".

If the speakers are full-range cabinets, that is the correct connection. If the speakers are bi-ampable 2 way with no internal crossover then you do need the NL4 with four wires carrying two signals high and low but it would have to come from two power amps after being split by an active crossover (which the PMP2000 does not have). If that is the case you would get a signal to EITHER the high or the low driver in the speaker but not both.

Give us more info on the speakers and clarify what you mean by "mixer trips offline"

« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 01:57:46 am by Robert Piascik »
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Chris Clark

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The connectors look the same (and actually are the same) except that the wire is different.
Close, actually NL2s and NL4s are keyed ever so slightly differently, so that NL2 females will mate with both NL2 males and NL4 males. NL4 females will only mate with NL4 males, not NL2 males.

Granted, thats beside the point here. Considering three factors: (A) the PMP2000 only uses pins 1+ and 1- anyway, and (B) your adapters only have a connection to a single 1/4" (thereby only using 1+/1-), and (C) given the above factors that NL2F's will mate with both NL2M and NL4M, the fact that you were only able to find NL2->1/4" is a non-issue (for that matter, nothing so far is saying that they aren't actually NL4F on the adapter and the description is "wrong")

Do the speakers work with other amplifiers? Does this amplifier work with other speakers?

I don't know if there's a way to tell if the amp is going into protect without having speakers connected, but if you can, does the amp go into protection with just the adapters plugged in? (ie, no speakers/cables connected to the 1/4" connector)

Robert's questions are certainly valid too - More speaker info is needed and clarification of "tripping offline", please.
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Geoff Doane

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As Robert says, it should work.

I'll make a couple assumptions here, since we haven't heard any more particulars from the OP yet.  If the mixer is going into "protect" once the speakers are connected and signal sent to them, I would be suspicious that there is a wiring problem with the cables.  The other assumption is that cables and connectors are the most likely source of faults in a system, not the electronics.

Can you check for a short between tip and sleeve of the 1/4" plug on the end of each cable?  A simple ohm meter will work for this.  You should measure an open circuit (> 1MΩ), with the cable not plugged into either the speakers or the mixer.  Ideally you'd also measure to make sure there is continuity from one end to the other, but it's difficult to get at the contacts in a Speakon connector.

GTD
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Scott Wagner

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it's difficult to get at the contacts in a Speakon connector.
You could always open the connector casing.
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Big Nickel Audio

Ron Stroope

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As Robert says, it should work.

I'll make a couple assumptions here, since we haven't heard any more particulars from the OP yet.  If the mixer is going into "protect" once the speakers are connected and signal sent to them, I would be suspicious that there is a wiring problem with the cables.  The other assumption is that cables and connectors are the most likely source of faults in a system, not the electronics.

Can you check for a short between tip and sleeve of the 1/4" plug on the end of each cable?  A simple ohm meter will work for this.  You should measure an open circuit (> 1MΩ), with the cable not plugged into either the speakers or the mixer.  Ideally you'd also measure to make sure there is continuity from one end to the other, but it's difficult to get at the contacts in a Speakon connector.

GTD


The mixer shuts down, connected to simple 2 way 8 ohm speakers (unpowered Cerwin Vegas ) using a balanced mic for input.  With the speakers connected the mixer blows hot air within a minute of turning it on.  With the mic connected and speakers disconnected the mixer stays powered up.  I will test the speaker cables for shorts.  So NL2 should work?  Other than a shorted speaker cable, could the NL2 be incompatible with NL4's?

Thanks,


Ron
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Geoff Doane

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The mixer shuts down, connected to simple 2 way 8 ohm speakers (unpowered Cerwin Vegas ) using a balanced mic for input.  With the speakers connected the mixer blows hot air within a minute of turning it on.  With the mic connected and speakers disconnected the mixer stays powered up.  I will test the speaker cables for shorts.  So NL2 should work?  Other than a shorted speaker cable, could the NL2 be incompatible with NL4's?

So you don't even have to run signal into the mixer, and it shuts down?

It certainly sounds like there is a serious short circuit in either the speaker cable or the speakers.  I'm leaning towards the speaker cables themselves, since it does it with no audio signal.  If it was the speakers that were the problem, the slight resistance of the speaker cable would diminish the effect.  I'd also guess that the problem is at the Speakon end, not the 1/4" end of the cable.

An NL2 plug should work properly in a NL4 jack.  However, it's not unheard of for there to be defects in even genuine Neutrik product (some were mislabeled, mixing up pins 1 and 2).  Since these cables came from a low overhead retailer, there's a good chance that they are using knockoffs, rather than genuine product, and that increases the chance of there being problems.

As an aside, the NL2 seems to be a product looking for an application.  An NL4 works perfectly fine in 2-conductor applications, and the NL2 isn't much less expensive than an NL4.  NL2 jacks cannot accommodate NL4s, so I'm not sure what niche they fill.

GTD
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Tim Perry

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The mixer shuts down, connected to simple 2 way 8 ohm speakers (unpowered Cerwin Vegas ) using a balanced mic for input.  With the speakers connected the mixer blows hot air within a minute of turning it on.  With the mic connected and speakers disconnected the mixer stays powered up.  I will test the speaker cables for shorts.  So NL2 should work?  Other than a shorted speaker cable, could the NL2 be incompatible with NL4's?

Thanks,


Ron

Obtain a nl2 connector.
Insert connector in amplifer with nothing else attached.
Turn power on.
Check for DC voltage with voltmeter.
If voltage is present on either or both outputs return unit for service.

Next obtain a low cost cable checker. An ohmmeter can be used but the checkers are simply easier.

Check you r cables for shorts.

Finally inspect your speakers  including a visual inspection of the crossover.

If you cannot do the above, take your entire rig, cables and all, to a qualified service tech.
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Ron Stroope

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GTD

You nailed it! Thanks to my trusty fluke multimeter:  Turns out one of the speaker cables is shorted, brand new right out of the wrapper.  LiveWire QA Sucks.

Thanks to all who responded,

Ron
  :D
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