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[Bob L. Wilson]

Here's their website. http://www.crossroadspaducah.com/#!

Was the pizza lunch at least good?

Send in the clowns there has to be clowns...........

[Bob L. Wilson]

I don't believe that SPL has all that much to do with what a worship service should be.  I would venture that music played with spirit for the purpose of praise relies on sincerity and heart rather than how loud it is.

Amen brother. The power of the Lord is in the message not the means of transmission.

[chris harwood]

Amen brother. The power of the Lord is in the message not the means of transmission.

Of course preaching to the choir on that... but there's a technical side of that as well.  As it turns out, the audio for this morning was probably the biggest train wrecks in recent history there.  It was horrible.

Did you notice in the "recording" tab, the pics were of a computer monitor and someones "family room"...I guess having wood floors makes it a studio.
The idea that they also stated on their "upgrades" tab...The trouble is, analog signals have limitations on how much data they can carry. So, with our more inexpensive technology, we only get so much.   I didn't know analog could only carry so much data... what does that mean anyway?

[chris harwood]

the pizza was ok... either just cheese or pepperoni... ;-/

[Ivan Beaver]

The idea that they also stated on their "upgrades" tab...The trouble is, analog signals have limitations on how much data they can carry. So, with our more inexpensive technology, we only get so much.   I didn't know analog could only carry so much data... what does that mean anyway?

It is amazing to me the number of people that think that a "digital signal" is somehow "better" than analog.

AT BEST-digital comes close to analog-but cannot surpass it.

Yes in some types of transmission-digital could be better-but not in a small room system.  That is just an excuse-same lame comments like some of the other ones listed.

I am sure they will blame the "bad service" on all sorts of issues-and non of them would be any of the things THEY said you should do.

If only you would do EVERYTHING they suggest-then and only then will they get the results they "say" you can get.

NOT!

But it is REAL easy to simply blame gear (or the lack of it or wrong brands) for the bad performance.  Just ask anybody who has every provided PA gear for national acts.

[Brad Weber]

Well THERE is your problem.  EVERYBODY knows that an expert is somebody who lives at least 100 miles away.  They didn't live far enough away from you!

So did they just make up stuff as they went along?  That is part of the problem with our industry-you have people like that who obviously are "missing quite a bit of the basics" and are telling others their "thoughts" and passing it on as "professional".

I have know people like that-and they can be very convincing to those who don't know any better.

TRULY sad that this type of stuff happens in todays world.

I would agree that basically the church got screwed.

I bet if you asked them why lapel mics are often omni they could not give the real reason.  The people who think a cardiod lav mic is better obviously have not thought it through and just "assume" that a cardoid pattern can get more gain before feedback-YES in some cases-but ONLY in the right direction.  And what about head movements?

In many lines of work one can claim to be a "professional" without that implying any qualifications.  One interesting thing I noted on the referenced web site is that the only qualifications I saw referenced were having a total of 20 years experience not just in professional audio and AV but total including as a musician, working with groups, etc.  No mention of any relevant education, trade specific training, professional associations, relevant past work experience, etc.  And the company was only registered in April of 2012, so while a legal company there is not much to go on there.

You may have experienced a common situation of someone that means well and thinks they are helping but may actually not have sufficient experience or exposure to realize how much they don't know or misunderstand.  It is a bit ironic when those offering training to others do not identify their having any directly relevant training, education or background.

I think Ivan's point about making it up as they go related more to the content than the actual training session or materials.  It appears that perhaps where they did not know something themselves they would create an answer rather than taking the time to learn about it and be able to offer a good answer.

[chris harwood]

In many lines of work one can claim to be a "professional" without that implying any qualifications.  One interesting thing I noted on the referenced web site is that the only qualifications I saw referenced were having a total of 20 years experience not just in professional audio and AV but total including as a musician, working with groups, etc.  No mention of any relevant education, trade specific training, professional associations, relevant past work experience, etc.  And the company was only registered in April of 2012, so while a legal company there is not much to go on there.

You may have experienced a common situation of someone that means well and thinks they are helping but may actually not have sufficient experience or exposure to realize how much they don't know or misunderstand.  It is a bit ironic when those offering training to others do not identify their having any directly relevant training, education or background.

I think Ivan's point about making it up as they go related more to the content than the actual training session or materials.  It appears that perhaps where they did not know something themselves they would create an answer rather than taking the time to learn about it and be able to offer a good answer.

I saw that too about the qualifications.  There are two guys to my knowledge and I would say that mean they've been in bands for 10 years each, as they both look to be in their late 20's as a guess.  I couldn't find anything about company registration... where did you see Apr, 2012?
My first "red flag" with them was one of the guys had his very young child (2-5 years old), running around on the platform, playing with the instruments, while the "tech" figured out how cables were routed.  The child ended up burning himself on a hot soldering gun, and that ended the session for that "tech" for the day at that point.  We have a policy to keep children off the platform, so they don't pull over a keyboard or hurt equipment or worse, hurt themselves. I really couldn't believe the free reign given to this unattended kid.  When I got there, they had re-arranged the stage, but not knowing how to set up my guitar floor rig (it's not complicated, but I'm using send/returns, running stereo, outboard stuff...etc), they just unplugged everything and coiled up my cables in a big pile.  Wasn't sure why they felt they needed to do that, but it was obvious they didn't know how to connect it back up correctly...and the kid was banging on my flight cases, etc  It was bad.  ;-(

[Nick Simon]

Amen brother. The power of the Lord is in the message not the means of transmission.

but it's in the mix...

[Nick Simon]

to Chris' original post...  if there was a problem with stage volume, why not go with all in-ears?   With our new system, we went to all IEMs (Sennheiser) and got rid of the wedges. We got rid of the bass cab, (most of our problem) and run DI out of the head. We put the guitar amps in an adjacent closet (individually mic'ed with 57's, and surrounded them with foam. Keys are XLR. Now the only stage volume we have is basically the drums, and they are behind a shield and have been dampened.

FOH vs. Mon volume is now under control, and we are actually getting a much cleaner mix @ FOH due to no cross bleed between stage / amp / vocal / mics and @ 96db, it was loud, clean, and comfortable.

Of course, this is a new system, and it was tuned by a hired gun (a real professional, with degrees and 30 years of live mixing experience with some well known national touring acts)  but it is light years from where we were, just last week...

[chris harwood]

thanks Nick...
I think IEM monitors will probably be our next step, since the Behringer X series and monitor systems seem to be holding up...for the short while!  The Aviom was too much $ for us, since we have about 7 musicians and 3-5 singers.  I have a decent set of Westones that I use in other venues, and I always actually like it much better than wedges.  I can hear much better.  A couple of us older guys are hesistant though, because they've never used them, but the Pastor will "trump" that decision if needs to.  We won't put the pastor or other Praise leaders on IEM, but use low volume wedges just for them, as they walk about too much, need to hear someone speaking in a back row..etc.  Even with ambient mics, I tend to think it would be a problem... can't whisper in the pastor's ear, etc..

We've been keeping an eye on Behringer stuff, since the "new" Behrniger came out, but was hoping spending $1k on a "pro" to help come assist and tweak, might have been enough...since we really aren't all that far away with sound issues.  Like someone else said... almost everyone sings in our band and when we even do acapella...I can make our Rat Shack meter hit 85dB.  We're looking to fine tune things and lower it just a BIT.  But it looks like we flushed 1000 down the toilet and I hope that can be recouped.

I know this will all happen and come about.  I've received lots of good confirm to date, which has been very helpful.  Yes I was skeptical when I walked in the door immediately....and thought we should have pulled from Nashville, St. Louis, Memphis..etc... but I wasn't in the decision WHO we hired....but do feel I influenced that we DO hire someone.  Mainly to be an "outsider" so people wouldn't get ticked at someone else in the church for making them stuff ear buds in their canals.  I think at this point, if it isn't liked, they might be politely asked to step down as it aint about whether you like wearing IEM or not...  as we DO know what a Praise Team is about.  I'm not sure how we will handle putting in a new digital board and the associated IEM stuff... if we do that in house or not.  I certainly feel comfortable hooking things up, but the Pastor doesn't want me to take the blame if something doesn't work.  Maybe we can get a pro that isn't too far away or pay travel expenses, because it would probably be worth it in the end
Thanks again guys..
and any more comments...more than appreciated.

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