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Author Topic: Matrix Comms (Part 2)  (Read 5471 times)

Neil White

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 10:14:41 am »

Hi Pete,

That does look like a well packaged system with lots of flexibility. Has the rack got C31 splitters built in to allow a single output from a C44 to be split and sent to different locations through the multis?

I guess PRG have invested in AES grade multi and XLR cables to put it all together. Are they using colour codes or similar to stop the AES cables getting mixed in with standard XLR?

How is the Artist frame configured? 24 Coax Panel Ports, 2 CAT5 cards for the C44s and 24 analogue 4w?

Rack mount panels, like the method used by Clair Broadcast (Wireless First) are more usable.  The tiltable 2RU boxes can be stacked and the back panel on the rear affords a full implementation of all the I/O GPIO and secondary headset ports.

What connector is the GPIO typically broken out to from the db9 connector on the panel?

Cheers,
Neil
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2013, 10:31:05 am »

Hi Pete,

That does look like a well packaged system with lots of flexibility. Has the rack got C31 splitters built in to allow a single output from a C44 to be split and sent to different locations through the multis?

I guess PRG have invested in AES grade multi and XLR cables to put it all together. Are they using colour codes or similar to stop the AES cables getting mixed in with standard XLR?

How is the Artist frame configured? 24 Coax Panel Ports, 2 CAT5 cards for the C44s and 24 analogue 4w?

What connector is the GPIO typically broken out to from the db9 connector on the panel?

Cheers,
Neil

The C31 splitters were in the parts case and not built in.  Building in 4 would have been good.  The C31 does not lend itself to rack mounting since the input is on one side and the 3 outputs on the other.

The Rack Panel GPIO was in the patchbay but no other connectors were associated with it.  Clair's panels bring the GPIO out on barrier strips which I think is the wrong way to go - XLR would be better.

They supplied AES multi and xlr all in purple as well as regular multi and xlr.  Here is the configuration I used on the rack.


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Pete Erskine
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 10:40:46 am »

I often find that for operator positions where they are using a console, rackmount panels are just too wide, and thats where desktop panels are better.
Clair bros racks have mounting plates on the bottom for Maffer magic arm attachment and are great for mounting on the side of a mixing desk or at the rear reaching over the desk.

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Out of interest, how do you find the StudioTech hybrids? Do they sound good? Do they auto-null effectively? I have found that some hybrids are great, and some, are not. I like the look of the studiotech ones, and the metering looks very functional.
They are very nice and the computer managed null is really good.  These units have power on both pins 2 and 3 when in the internal beltpack power mode which makes the hybrid perfect for feeding a Source Assign Panel.

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I'd love to build my own Riedel based system, but Riedel make sure its not really viable for other companies to rent their systems, so its probably a non-starter. In which case, I'd be more inclined to head toward clearcom, as they have a pretty complete line

It is always an issue when renting in Riedel's market.  As a manufacturer they have an interest in promoting their product and have the ability to rent at a low cost as a loss leader.  There are a lot of rental companies, however, in the USA which have Artist.  The ease of use, flexibility, AES audio, and fiber interconnect are the best of any system, RTS and ClearCom included.
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Neil White

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2013, 11:06:46 am »

Here is the configuration I used on the rack.

Hi Pete,

From the AIO port labelling, it looks like each of the Whirlwind 12pr is set up to be 6 inputs and 6 outputs from the matrix? Are the 4W ports that are labelled as RPTR for two way radio interfaces? I guess the BTRs were located in another rack and connected via 12 pair multi also?

Clair's panels bring the GPIO out on barrier strips which I think is the wrong way to go - XLR would be better.

Would you want to see all the GPI on one connector and all the GPO on another, or an indivdual XLRs for each I/O pair?

Has anyone built a Clearcom style flasher that could be integrated with a matrix panel via GPIO yet? It could be powered from a small DC adaptor, as there is already needs to be power available for the matrix panel. It would be easy enough to program a logic function to trigger the output on a panel that you want to call to.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 12:41:45 pm »

From the AIO port labelling, it looks like each of the Whirlwind 12pr is set up to be 6 inputs and 6 outputs from the matrix? Are the 4W ports that are labelled as RPTR for two way radio interfaces? I guess the BTRs were located in another rack and connected via 12 pair multi also?

Would you want to see all the GPI on one connector and all the GPO on another, or an indivdual XLRs for each I/O pair?

That was a slight annoyance for me - 6 port on a multi and 8 on the frame.  I actually had to think to figure out what multi was in use...also, the way they wired it the first 6 were input and the second 6 were output.  Usually 4-wire ports are used together and it would have been nicer if the box was arranged male/female.

PRG also made a special RJ connector multi box with a series of switches to change the pin out for different uses...BTR, CCI, etc.  It would have been simpler, less expensive and more reliable just to have several RJ connectors for each 4-wire wired in the various pin outs in parallel.

We interfaced three repeaters and 8 RTS systems in this show.  I detailed how we did it in the posting Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid

Best GPI interface would be male and female 3 pin xlr with the GPIO connected to pins 2-3.

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Has anyone built a ClearCom style flasher that could be integrated with a matrix panel via GPIO yet? It could be powered from a small DC adapter, as there is already needs to be power available for the matrix panel. It would be easy enough to program a logic function to trigger the output on a panel that you want to call to.

Riedel already makes one built into the AES C31 box.  It is triggered by GPO signals through the Performer AES cable.  It is not stand alone for plugging into a panel.  That you can make with any flasher and a power supply.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 12:46:26 pm by Pete Erskine »
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Neil White

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 12:45:02 pm »

That was a slight annoyance for me - 6 port on a multi and 8 on the frame.  I actually had to think to figure out what multi was in use...also, the way they wired it the first 6 were input and the second 6 were output.  Usually 4-wire ports are used together and it would have been nicer if the box was arranged male/female.

Were the patchbays normalled to always route certain 4 wire ports to multis / local outs or did you have to use patch cables? From the picture it looks like you only needed patch cables to make changes from a default configuration?

N.

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Pete Erskine

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 12:50:49 pm »

Were the patchbays normalled to always route certain 4 wire ports to multis / local outs or did you have to use patch cables? From the picture it looks like you only needed patch cables to make changes from a default configuration?

It was normaled for the mults A-D and model 47.  Here is the layout.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 12:52:20 pm by Pete Erskine »
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Neil White

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2013, 01:03:07 pm »

It was normaled for the mults A-D and model 47.  Here is the layout.

I can see how the difference between 6 ch on the multi and 8 on the AIO cards could be difficult to keep track of. Would it have been easier if there was only 4 AIO ports normalled to each multi, and more of the ports freely patchable to local i/o or the remaining multi channels? I guess the other alternative is a higher channel count multipin, perhaps a 20 Channel Whirlwind W2 that could carry 8 x 4W plus 4 patchable lines.

Neil
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2013, 02:03:03 pm »

I can see how the difference between 6 ch on the multi and 8 on the AIO cards could be difficult to keep track of. Would it have been easier if there was only 4 AIO ports normalled to each multi, and more of the ports freely patchable to local i/o or the remaining multi channels? I guess the other alternative is a higher channel count multipin, perhaps a 20 Channel Whirlwind W2 that could carry 8 x 4W plus 4 patchable lines.

12 pair is their standard.  You are right - a better way would be to only use 4 pair normaled and the remaining 2 pair un-normaled for other patching.  Then use all 5 mults for 4 wire interface.
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Pete Erskine
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Neil White

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Re: Matrix Comms (Part 2)
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2013, 02:33:43 pm »

12 pair is their standard.  You are right - a better way would be to only use 4 pair normaled and the remaining 2 pair un-normaled for other patching.  Then use all 5 mults for 4 wire interface.

I guess it is a balancing act between system flexibility and ease of use. Making every I/O from the matrix, multipins and local panel freely patchable would allow the user to decide how every multpin was allocated. This could be useful, perhaps to dedicate a multipin to 4w interfaces for a rack of BTRs or another to C44 outputs. The comprimise would be the number of patchcords to make the system function.

What is the function of the LCL in and out sockets on the top row of the patchbay?

Neil
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