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Author Topic: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)  (Read 6030 times)

Kim Guibord

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Hello All:

I needed a small set of subs for small events that I do, I have a VTC Rig that I use for my larger shows and it really rocks...My local dealer had a pair of the ucs1 that he let me use just to get me out of a bind, I do not want multiples of these because I already have my large rig...In the back of the room these really came alive...up in front there was not very much low end...I attribute this to being a horn loaded sub...I am now thinking about the ls801p...unless you guys have some ideas on getting more low end up front...Thanks for your help.
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Mike Christy

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 12:38:41 PM »

Kim, I use horn loaded subs and do not have that issue. You are probably hearing more lows in the back of the room due to the boundary (wall), and less up front due to cancelations.

Mike
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Kim Guibord

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 01:41:40 PM »

Kim, I use horn loaded subs and do not have that issue. You are probably hearing more lows in the back of the room due to the boundary (wall), and less up front due to cancelations.

Mike
Well I know that I am probably getting cancellation because I use them as speaker stands on each side of the stage...but I do not have the option of center clustering.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 02:58:57 PM »

What does having them on each side of the stage have to do with cancelations.
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Vinny DAgostino

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2013, 04:00:40 PM »

Change them out for the LS801P, it will give you the results you are looking for.
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John Sabine

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2013, 06:38:24 PM »

I've run both and actually used my UCS1P's to add bottom to my line array rig. Given the choice though I'd choose the LS801P. Dimensionally they are a little wonky but they have much more punch than the UCS1P's



Change them out for the LS801P, it will give you the results you are looking for.
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Tim Perry

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2013, 08:12:05 PM »

Hello All:

I needed a small set of subs for small events that I do, I have a VTC Rig that I use for my larger shows and it really rocks...My local dealer had a pair of the ucs1 that he let me use just to get me out of a bind, I do not want multiples of these because I already have my large rig...In the back of the room these really came alive...up in front there was not very much low end...I attribute this to being a horn loaded sub...I am now thinking about the ls801p...unless you guys have some ideas on getting more low end up front...Thanks for your help.


Out of curiosity, just how far back was the back of the room in feet? a guesstimate is fine.

Also how far back was the mix position?
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Art Welter

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 11:37:17 AM »


In the back of the room these really came alive...up in front there was not very much low end...I attribute this to being a horn loaded sub...I am now thinking about the ls801p
Kim,

Horn loaded and front loaded subs both fall off at the same rate, six dB per doubling of distance.
Whenever you encounter a low frequency difference from inverse distance law it is due to the room and placement, not the cabinet design.
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Mike Christy

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 12:34:56 PM »

Kim,

Horn loaded and front loaded subs both fall off at the same rate, six dB per doubling of distance.
Whenever you encounter a low frequency difference from inverse distance law it is due to the room and placement, not the cabinet design.

Thank you Art. Agree.

(Surprised at all the "go and buy" suggestions over the usual "what is the setup and lets correct that first" suggestion.)

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Scott Wagner

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 12:56:29 PM »

Thank you Art. Agree.

(Surprised at all the "go and buy" suggestions over the usual "what is the setup and lets correct that first" suggestion.)
We all know that money fixes everything, which is actually true if the money is being spent on an expert instead of some "magic bean."
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Scott Wagner
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Dave Rickard

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2013, 03:26:42 PM »

Sounds like a placement issue.

How far away were the sidewalls and back wall?
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Vinny DAgostino

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2013, 05:36:20 PM »


(Surprised at all the "go and buy" suggestions over the usual "what is the setup and lets correct that first" suggestion.)

Because based on what the OP is looking for the 801P would suit him better.
It is a more in your face type of punch then the UCS1 is.
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David Parker

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2013, 06:40:49 PM »

Kim, I use horn loaded subs and do not have that issue. You are probably hearing more lows in the back of the room due to the boundary (wall), and less up front due to cancelations.

Mike
I walked by the side of a dance hall once, admiring the bass coming from inside. Also sounded great on the sidewalk out in front. I walked across the street and the bass stopped in the middle of the street, then picked back up on the sidewalk across from the hall. I had to walk back across to try it again, thinking maybe the music had stopped while I was in the middle of the street. Same thing. There was a bass null in the middle of the street, and the bass sounded great on either side. Bass does funny things. As I learned in vibration training for rotating equipment, there are formulas for everything, but most of the time there is a variable not recognized that cancels all the calculations.
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Mike Pyle

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2013, 11:40:24 AM »

Kim,

Horn loaded and front loaded subs both fall off at the same rate, six dB per doubling of distance.
Whenever you encounter a low frequency difference from inverse distance law it is due to the room and placement, not the cabinet design.

FROM THE OLD EAW FORUMS. Dave Gunness replies to a question about"long throw" subs. The last two paragraphs could be pertinent to the OP's question:

Quote
Posted by David Gunness (Member # 9) on 07-06-2004 12:03 PM :
 
A "long throw" speaker is normally considered to be a high-directivity speaker. Vertically, because it projects a tight beam, you're able to "throw" the sound over the heads of the nearest listeners without killing them with SPL. Horizontally, it sends less energy into the sidewalls of the room - so the reverb picks up more slowly as you walk toward the back.

When it comes to floor-stacked subs, neither of these effects apply. All of the listeners are in the direct path of the subs, so there is no throwing it over their heads. Also, all subs have wide patterns, and nearly all rooms have relatively long reverb times at low frequencies - so the effect of low frequency directivity on the distribution of reverb in a room is usually insignificant.

What is important is the area of the wavefront where it exits the box. In order to squeeze 100 acoustic Watts out of an 18-inch woofer, the sound pressure has to be extremely high at the surface of the woofer. If the same 100 acoustic Watts comes through a 3-foot by 3-foot horn mouth, the sound pressure will be much, much lower at the mouth (nearly 10 dB less). A hundred Watts is a hundred Watts, so at 50 feet, both systems will produce the same SPL.

The difference then, is that for a given SPL at distance, the SPL down close to the speakers is much lower for the horn than it is for the direct radiator. That means the horn produces less SPL variation from near to far - than the direct radiator does. Some people would call that "throw". Incidentally, this form of "throw" works the same indoors as it does outdoors.

David Gunness
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Mike Pyle  Audiopyle Sound  707-315-6204
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Mike Christy

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2013, 11:58:23 AM »

FROM THE OLD EAW FORUMS. Dave Gunness replies to a question about"long throw" subs. The last two paragraphs could be pertinent to the OP's question:

Agree again Mike, I understand Dave's analysis of direct radiating paper cone coupling directly to the air in a smaller area compared to horn subs, but the key statement here is "the horn produces less SPL variation from near to far ". Since the OP issue is no bass in front with lots of bass in back (a variation in SPL), I tend to still think it is cancelations or rooms modes going on... but who knows!

Best,
Mike
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Art Welter

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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2013, 04:47:37 PM »

FROM THE OLD EAW FORUMS. Dave Gunness replies to a question about"long throw" subs. The last two paragraphs could be pertinent to the OP's question:
Mike,
Horn loaded, front loaded, or any sub design all fall off at six dB per doubling of distance (outdoors), if the initial measurement distance is at roughly the diameter of the radiating surface.

Dave Gunness' 2004 quote:
     
"If the same 100 acoustic Watts comes through a 3-foot by 3-foot horn mouth, the sound pressure will be much, much lower at the mouth (nearly 10 dB less). A hundred Watts is a hundred Watts, so at 50 feet, both systems will produce the same SPL...
The difference then, is that for a given SPL at distance, the SPL down close to the speakers is much lower for the horn than it is for the direct radiator. "

Is not at odds with my statement, Dave's reference only applies very close to the speaker, measured at the mouth.
At two meters, the effect is gone even comparing a single 18" compared to a 3'x3' horn.

For a horn like the OP has, there is far less difference in radiating area than Dave's example, even measured at the mouth compared to a 18" there would only be a few dB difference if the level was adjusted to the same SPL at 50 feet.




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Re: Yorkie UCS1 pb..( I think that this is the wrong sub for my application)
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2013, 04:47:37 PM »


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