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Author Topic: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid  (Read 3583 times)

Pete Erskine

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Here are two new pages on my website which explain how I programmed a Riedel Artist system.

The first shows how a 2-wire RTS beltpack system can be connected to a 4-wire circuit without using a Hybrid
http://www.bestaudio.com/_private/downloads/no_hybrid_4-wire_interface_for_rts.pdf

The second shows how to program a Riedel Artist system to easily connect and disconnect a port from a Party line.
http://www.bestaudio.com/_private/downloads/turning_on_and_off_pl_inputs.pdf

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Neil White

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 12:53:09 pm »

Hi Pete,

That's a neat way to get four wire audio from a 2 channel beltpack.

I have a question regarding the global PL channel that is being sent over fibre. Since it is one feed being fed to all of the sites, I assume it must have all 8 of the RTS talk channels in it. How does this sound to a user at one of the sites? For example, a user at site 1 talks on channel 1 of their beltpack. This is heard locally through all the other beltpacks and through sidetone. This signal is sent to the main site over fibre, through the Artist matrix and back through the fibre path to channel 2 of the RTS beltpacks. Were there any issues with the latency of this audio path causing an echo for users on the local systems? I would imagine this could be avoided if there was a separate send to each of the remote sites because they could listen to the main sites and all of the other remotes minus their own contribution.

It looks like you are using Artist 1100 series panels and Director 6.5. How are you finding the new OLED keys?

Neil
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 08:47:03 pm »

Hi Pete,

That's a neat way to get four wire audio from a 2 channel beltpack.

I have a question regarding the global PL channel that is being sent over fibre. Since it is one feed being fed to all of the sites, I assume it must have all 8 of the RTS talk channels in it. How does this sound to a user at one of the sites? For example, a user at site 1 talks on channel 1 of their beltpack. This is heard locally through all the other beltpacks and through sidetone. This signal is sent to the main site over fibre, through the Artist matrix and back through the fibre path to channel 2 of the RTS beltpacks. Were there any issues with the latency of this audio path causing an echo for users on the local systems? I would imagine this could be avoided if there was a separate send to each of the remote sites because they could listen to the main sites and all of the other remotes minus their own contribution.

It looks like you are using Artist 1100 series panels and Director 6.5. How are you finding the new OLED keys?

Neil

The outbound listen to pl port is duplicated by fiber in all locations.

Each site's inbound fiber is switched into talk to the PL.

The fiber imbed/deimbed system did all noticeable latency which was heard at low level at the RTS end.

If we could have gotten a true 4 wire from each site that would have been a better way.

I like the new panel displays, except that because they are OLED the panel goes into screensaver mode after a few minutes.  I find that annoying.  It is cute to be able to put ICONS on the label but not nice enough to make the panel better than the old led one.  Also the OLED cannot be read as well in direct sunlight.
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TonyWilliams

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Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 11:53:34 pm »

Pete, do you build the wet RTS to audio boxes? If so, what transformer do you use? I was looking at building a box or two.
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Neil White

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 04:37:30 am »

If we could have gotten a true 4 wire from each site that would have been a better way.

It sounds like an ideal scenario for an Intracom VCOM set up.

In the no hybrid 4 wire interface paper you mention the limitations of multiple hybrids in one PL. In your experience is there a rule of thumb as to how many 4wire - 2wire conversions it is ok to have on one PL before the symptoms of poor nulling become noticeable? I guess this is dependent on the quality of the hybrid units used. Are the Studio Technologies 4w-2w units the best in the market at the moment?

It looks like Director 6.5 has some nice improvements from earlier versions, especially the improved copy function and the ability to edit names directly in the ports and conference lists. Have these changes made the system quicker to program?

Neil


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Mac Kerr

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 08:41:57 am »

Pete, do you build the wet RTS to audio boxes? If so, what transformer do you use? I was looking at building a box or two.

Check to downloads page link at the bottom of Pete's web page. He has a lot of comm adapters and tricks there.

Mac
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 12:45:42 pm »

Pete, do you build the wet RTS to audio boxes? If so, what transformer do you use? I was looking at building a box or two.

I do.  Here is the design and parts list. 
http://bestaudio.com/_private/downloads/Wireless_intercom_ground_iso_simple.pdf

I do not have the PC boards any more but you can build it on a perf board.

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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 12:51:05 pm »

It sounds like an ideal scenario for an Intracom VCOM set up.

In the no hybrid 4 wire interface paper you mention the limitations of multiple hybrids in one PL. In your experience is there a rule of thumb as to how many 4wire - 2wire conversions it is ok to have on one PL before the symptoms of poor nulling become noticeable? I guess this is dependent on the quality of the hybrid units used. Are the Studio Technologies 4w-2w units the best in the market at the moment?

It looks like Director 6.5 has some nice improvements from earlier versions, especially the improved copy function and the ability to edit names directly in the ports and conference lists. Have these changes made the system quicker to program?

Neil

2-3 is about the maximum number of Hybrids on the same PL.

Studio Technologies are probably the best.  The hybrids built into the Tempest wireless are better in that they also incorporate echo cancelling which removes the last vestige of leakage.

I do like the spreadsheet ability in 6.5 which makes it much easier to make the names consistent.  But my favorite feature is the ability to lock the Headset/speaker button and the shift button.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 08:56:19 pm »

Here are two new pages on my website which explain how I programmed a Riedel Artist system.

The first shows how a 2-wire RTS beltpack system can be connected to a 4-wire circuit without using a Hybrid
http://www.bestaudio.com/_private/downloads/no_hybrid_4-wire_interface_for_rts.pdf

The second shows how to program a Riedel Artist system to easily connect and disconnect a port from a Party line.
http://www.bestaudio.com/_private/downloads/turning_on_and_off_pl_inputs.pdf

So what am I missing? The headset connector is a 4-wire in/out. Just turn down the sidetone.
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Henry Cohen

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Pete Erskine

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Re: Interfacing RTS 2-wire to a 4-wire system without using a Hybrid
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 09:07:46 pm »

So what am I missing? The headset connector is a 4-wire in/out. Just turn down the sidetone.

It still is a hybrid and even with the sidetone off there is enough leakage to cause ringing if you had more than 3 on the same circuit.  BY separating the send RX to different channels they never mix at all.
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