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Author Topic: Main loud speaker options  (Read 61805 times)

Samuel Rees

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Main loud speaker options
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2013, 01:29:11 PM »

Haha ok, could be 12 or even 6. Not very good for crossovers. I used to have an HPR and though it wasn't the steepest slope in the world it was not a problem. Seems like the lack of crossover on your mains is an issue. The HPR should have a built in HPF out, as well as a LPF built in.

Check that out and see if I'm remembering right - you could run that to the PRX instead of direct signal from the board. You could do that without buying any gear. That or aux fed and get a crossover for the PRX. I'd prefer the later, but you can do the first without buying anything.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2013, 01:42:51 PM »

Haha ok, could be 12 or even 6. Not very good for crossovers. I used to have an HPR and though it wasn't the steepest slope in the world it was not a problem. Seems like the lack of crossover on your mains is an issue. The HPR should have a built in HPF out, as well as a LPF built in.

Check that out and see if I'm remembering right - you could run that to the PRX instead of direct signal from the board. You could do that without buying any gear. That or aux fed and get a crossover for the PRX. I'd prefer the later, but you can do the first without buying anything.

I'm already using the 100Hz high passed outputs from the sub to the PRXs.

There could just be an issue with one of the outputs on the sub. I think I briefly mentioned this in another thread but one of the PRXs sounds noticeably louder than the other, and the issue didn't move when we flipped the speakers. So the one on the right was louder regardless of which cab was on the right. I didn't think about it before but if one of the outputs on the sub is malfunctioning that might be one of the causes of the high pass issue with vocals.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 01:49:03 PM by Jason Lucas »
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Scott Wagner

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2013, 10:30:53 AM »

I'm already using the 100Hz high passed outputs from the sub to the PRXs.

There could just be an issue with one of the outputs on the sub. I think I briefly mentioned this in another thread but one of the PRXs sounds noticeably louder than the other, and the issue didn't move when we flipped the speakers. So the one on the right was louder regardless of which cab was on the right. I didn't think about it before but if one of the outputs on the sub is malfunctioning that might be one of the causes of the high pass issue with vocals.
Are you saying that you're using the sub's internal crossover AND the roll-your-own-not-really-crossover you've created with the board EQ?  If so, remove the board EQ from the equation.  Multiple crossover filters applied to the same passband are NOT a good thing.

As for one PRX being louder, since this is run as a mono system, wire it that way - sub HPF out to one PRX then daisy chained to the other PRX.  That way they would both be seeing the exact same level.

I would highly recommend that you remove/bypass ALL EQ in the system, use the HPR's internal crossover (if you don't want to buy one), and start tuning the system from there.  Of course, your speaker deployment is going to continue to cause you problems, but that won't change unless the deployment does.  While that is a big issue, it sounds like it's the least of your problems right now.  Simplify.

Then again, in that space the single center cluster is probably your best bet if you can figure out what's wrong with it.
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Scott Wagner
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Jason Lucas

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2013, 01:04:39 PM »

Are you saying that you're using the sub's internal crossover AND the roll-your-own-not-really-crossover you've created with the board EQ?  If so, remove the board EQ from the equation.  Multiple crossover filters applied to the same passband are NOT a good thing.

No, right now I am only using the subs crossover.
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Ray Aberle

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2013, 02:41:02 PM »

And as always.......find a pro in your area to assist.

There are quite a few... You've got Mr. Johnson near by in Battle Ground, I've got gear and staff in Vancouver, there's West Coast Events in PDX (They're a VerTec shop), and quite a few others. I don't do installs but could definitely help a bit with system tuning and gear deployment/usage.

So, reach out and let someone help out! :)

-Ray
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Samuel Rees

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Main loud speaker options
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2013, 02:45:24 PM »

Sounds like the short answer, without changing your physical deployment or getting a real consult, is to get a crossover for your PRX and go aux fed, that way there's no chance of vocal / sub interaction so you can rule that out as an issue.

So is getting a cheap consult or even just a look over REALLY out of the question? Have you presented that I could be cheap just just for some to take a look to your management?

That's about all anyone can say about this topic over the interwebz I think.

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Jason Lucas

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2013, 04:22:02 PM »

When we first installed the Roland, we had a guy by the name of Mark Miller train up the guy who used to be our "lead" sound tech (he's since stepped down and doesn't do sound for us anymore) how to use the board and while he was there he did help dial everything in a bit. One of the things we did was start running our system without AUX fed subs and used a crossover (which I assume was the sub's crossover). After that we had issues with the Pastor's mic feeding back through the sub every time he would walk by it.

Then we moved to a new building and moved back to AUX fed subs for a while. Then after I started learning a lot more about sound I noticed we were running the JBLs full range. I thought to myself "Hey, why are we running the JBLs full range if we have a sub?" so I used the EQ on the board to cut the low end below 100Hz out of the JBLs.

Then after a while it still seemed like the JBLs and the sub were occupying a lot of the same sonic space and the low end seemed pretty muddy. So I went back to using the sub's crossover and then when I was getting way too much boom/low end feedback from the vocal mics I high passed them way up.

At one point I suggested we bring Mark in to come tune the system, but they said it was too expensive to bring him in.

I can make the suggestion again, but I don't know how cheap someone would have to be before they would give the ok.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 04:23:47 PM by Jason Lucas »
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Samuel Rees

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Main loud speaker options
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2013, 06:42:34 PM »

Then after I started learning a lot more about sound I noticed we were running the JBLs full range. I thought to myself "Hey, why are we running the JBLs full range if we have a sub?" so I used the EQ on the board to cut the low end below 100Hz out of the JBLs.

Then after a while it still seemed like the JBLs and the sub were occupying a lot of the same sonic space


Sounds like the reason that happened is because the Roland filters were not steep enough. Grab a crossover, set it high for some exaggerated separation, and I bet it will help a lot.
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Jason Lucas

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2013, 06:51:14 PM »



Sounds like the reason that happened is because the Roland filters were not steep enough. Grab a crossover, set it high for some exaggerated separation, and I bet it will help a lot.

That's what I'm hoping for. Planning on picking one up tomorrow afternoon while I'm at guitar center.
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

Jason Lucas

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Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2013, 08:43:35 PM »

Picked this up today while I was at GC: http://www.dbxpro.com/en-US/products/234s

Gonna try to find a night where I can get down to the church and test it out.
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There are three things I hate: Harsh highs, hollow mids, and woofy bass.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Main loud speaker options
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2013, 08:43:35 PM »


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