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Author Topic: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4  (Read 24981 times)

Bob Leonard

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2013, 10:50:17 PM »

JR probably still has the tire tracks on his back from his days in Meridian, defending design decisions he knew were right for users but unfathomed by marketing, purchasing, or the guy who signed his cheque.

My most loved/hated of JR's creations was the Mark VIII.  It was clean, quiet, the EQ was responsive without feeling "hyped" and came with lots of routing (internal and physical i/o) capability.  The rest?  It really didn't like being moved.  In a truck.  The PSU voltage dividers and coms/TB were on the same card, which led to some interesting failures of both, though usually not at the same time.  And it said "Peavey" on it.  Those who mixed with their eyes were disappointed; the rest were usually pleased with it and it got a couple of "better than a Soundcraft" comments.  Something like 15 years ago we sold ours to a guy who built a recording studio around it.  I think he's still using it.

The MARK VIII sounded as good as any board in it's day IMO. If I remember some went for 9-10K and can be had for 1K today.
 
 
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Ron Kimball

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2013, 11:23:07 PM »

Mute should mute everything except the pre fader direct out. Is that not true on the DL1608? That would be a deal breaker for me.
Yes, the mutes affect both the main and aux outs. I seem to remember this being a "defect" of the first couple PreSonus firmwares? At least Mackie got that right out of the gate :) .
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 11:31:11 PM by Ron Kimball »
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Ron Kimball

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2013, 11:30:13 PM »

I'm reading this and see where the 1608 can be called a mixer due to functionality, but I just don't see how it can be positioned to the live sound market simply because an Ipad runs it, or is it as the case may be.
The DL1608 IS the mixer - the iPad is only a control surface. You can turn off the iPad and the mixer continues to function. I think it is pretty cool that you can have a mixer with two control surfaces for monitor world and FOH for under $2k :) . OTOH I have a PreSonus 1818VSL where the mixer actually is software running on the PC :( .
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Marc Platt

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2013, 11:34:10 PM »

I'm reading this and see where the 1608 can be called a mixer due to functionality, but I just don't see how it can be positioned to the live sound market simply because an Ipad runs it, or is it as the case may be.

There are many devices out there which provide an interface to sound devices using an Ipad. Do they all have to be called a mixer?

Perhaps novelty devices of this type are better positioned to home recording use.
Trust me Bob, I'm with you on the analog over digi preference for the most part but for the price tag of the DL, I figured I'd give it a whirl, considering it cost roughly same as my monitor eq's price (ea) since I already had the Ipad2 and Ipad mini. So far I mixed a few shows with the DL  and it sounds better then you expect and the thing is barely bigger then my stagebox on my snake I use with my mix wizard rack. It looks like the quality of a Zoom 4 track recorder you can buy for <$100 and compared to even the smallest mixwizard rack rig I own this still makes me feel like less of a man and likely makes my job look much easier then I would like it to appear.
 All that said, this thing sounds pretty damn good and with some basic tweeks and updates it really has potential. Typical mackie cheapness throughout, but all in all I can live with stupid global phantom and a cheasy power supply in chord crap even despite my belief that these things to be clear signs or a non-pro piece.
 I do still love faders, knobs, racks of gear and all the cabling insert snakes and multipair cables.... I still have a bit of a cable/wire fetish.
 The biggest advantage I see in the Digi world, it's a much safer word to abbreviate then analog, trust me!
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Brad Weber

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2013, 07:53:33 AM »

The DL1608 IS the mixer - the iPad is only a control surface. You can turn off the iPad and the mixer continues to function. I think it is pretty cool that you can have a mixer with two control surfaces for monitor world and FOH for under $2k :) . OTOH I have a PreSonus 1818VSL where the mixer actually is software running on the PC :( .
At the same time, try buying a DL1608 and mixing with it without having an iPad and see how well that works.  You can't mix on a DL1608 without an iPad so it can be argued that in probably the vast majority of use it is an integral part of the 'mixer'.
 
Taking this to another level, you could create a mixer with computer control using matrix DSP devices, in fact at one time there was a company working on a mixer that was essentially a custom controller connected to multiple matrix DSP boxes (MediaMatrix, BSS, etc.).  So something like the DL1608 seems to have a lot in common with a pre-programmed, fixed format matrix DSP.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2013, 09:52:33 AM »

Trust me Bob, I'm with you on the analog over digi preference for the most part but for the price tag of the DL, I figured I'd give it a whirl, considering it cost roughly same as my monitor eq's price (ea) since I already had the Ipad2 and Ipad mini. So far I mixed a few shows with the DL  and it sounds better then you expect and the thing is barely bigger then my stagebox on my snake I use with my mix wizard rack. It looks like the quality of a Zoom 4 track recorder you can buy for <$100 and compared to even the smallest mixwizard rack rig I own this still makes me feel like less of a man and likely makes my job look much easier then I would like it to appear.
 All that said, this thing sounds pretty damn good and with some basic tweeks and updates it really has potential. Typical mackie cheapness throughout, but all in all I can live with stupid global phantom and a cheasy power supply in chord crap even despite my belief that these things to be clear signs or a non-pro piece.
 I do still love faders, knobs, racks of gear and all the cabling insert snakes and multipair cables.... I still have a bit of a cable/wire fetish.
 The biggest advantage I see in the Digi world, it's a much safer word to abbreviate then analog, trust me!

I'm not making an analog digital comparison here. What I'm saying is that the Ipad IS the mixer. I live in a digital world (for over 110 hrs this last week) and reliability is primary. What this product has going for it IS the Ipad because they are considered reliable.
 
The Ipad is the engine for the application, in this case Mackie's mixer application. The application controls the interface, the mixers shell or body if you will, much like a control surface to a DAW. The problem I see is Mackie's haste to address the digital market at a low price point. The rush to market resulted in a usefull but not ready for prime time product.
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Ron Kimball

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2013, 10:00:19 AM »

The rush to market resulted in a usefull but not ready for prime time product.
Just to be fair I'll re-iterate that the StudioLive wasn't "finished" when it was first shipped but has evolved into a pretty decent mixer. I think they even finally fixed the crappy 6db/octave HPFs the last firmware update? The Mackie has great EQ, the SL16 is still only semi-parametric :( .
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2013, 11:24:32 AM »

JR probably still has the tire tracks on his back from his days in Meridian, defending design decisions he knew were right for users but unfathomed by marketing, purchasing, or the guy who signed his cheque.

My most loved/hated of JR's creations was the Mark VIII.  It was clean, quiet, the EQ was responsive without feeling "hyped" and came with lots of routing (internal and physical i/o) capability.  The rest?  It really didn't like being moved.  In a truck.  The PSU voltage dividers and coms/TB were on the same card, which led to some interesting failures of both, though usually not at the same time.  And it said "Peavey" on it.  Those who mixed with their eyes were disappointed; the rest were usually pleased with it and it got a couple of "better than a Soundcraft" comments.  Something like 15 years ago we sold ours to a guy who built a recording studio around it.  I think he's still using it.
While I appreciate any kind words I get, the lead engineer on the Mark VIII was Jack Aubuchon a very solid analog engineer (who ended up reporting to me later when I was put over all mixer engineering). Back then I was lead on the near twin console, the AMR Production Series recording console. The two consoles shared common tooling (like the forming tool for the channel strip sheet metal, and a common component set (special pots, faders, and switches tooled up just for those two products). There were similarities and differences between those two. One obvious example, I offered configurations more attuned to studio use with as large as a 36x24 load... The Mark VIII IIRC offered a something like 40x8 (?) max.  We even tooled up identical knobs for both consoles, but pushed different color plastic through the tooling for the two models. Another important difference, I voiced the EQ differently on the AMR because strip EQ in a recording board is not likely to be used for feedback mitigation, but purely sound shaping, so different Q and some what  different sweep range (lower LF sweep, etc).

One design fight that I lost in that product series was the fader sourcing. I wanted to use the cheapest at the time (that didn't suck) $10 Alps fader, but I was forced by the man whose name was on the buildings to use a $2 Jung Poon (Korean) fader. I had my "told you so" opportunity a few months into shipping, when the crappy Korean  faders started falling apart en masse in the field. Of course you don't really get to say I told you so to the Man, he's always the man.  8)  Luckily, and perhaps because they lost the original design win, Alps magically showed up to save the day with their new K-Fader, costing more than $2 but way less than $10 (K- was an obvious reference to the Jung Poon POS).   

But yes, I agree with your assessment. The Mark VIII was a serious console that did almost everything well. I don't recall any complaint other than about the brand name (and perhaps size-weight). It was interesting to watch Mackie stumble with their more serious SR console attempt, but it was all academic, the big money was at the lower price point, and riders ruled the big board bailiwick.

Mackies high volume 8-bus was a relatively cheap $4k back then. Interesting compared to the modern X-32 pricing (not to mention we have cheaper dollars now). The X-32 is in the old Mackie 8-bus sweet spot for price. 

JR

PS: In my crystal ball consoles go away entirely, so IPAD-ISHMAD. In the future we will be using some game controller technology.
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Marc Platt

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Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:37 PM »

Is it possible (legal wise) for develpopers to engineer 3rd party apps to control the DL hardware? I imagine it is.
 Would be cool to see if any "better suited" options arise for use with the DL.
  Obviously better suited options differ based on preference and application.
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As a child I had dreamed of becoming an engineer. Now all I want to know is, when do I get to drive the train?

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Mackie User Forums shut down since 1/4
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:37 PM »


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