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Author Topic: PRX618S-XLF vs. VRX918SP  (Read 1384 times)

Spenser Hamilton

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Re: PRX618S-XLF vs. VRX918SP
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 12:08:28 pm »

Sure, I get the boundary effect.

The VRX spec sheet says free field, while the PRX does not say how it was measured. Didn't notice that till now. Maybe that's it?

JBL should specify how the PRX is measured.

If I'm remember facts correct, independent measurements of the 718S done in half space seemed to be fairly close to the published charts.
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cliff truesdell

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Re: PRX618S-XLF vs. VRX918SP
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 12:20:07 pm »

Sure, I get the boundary effect.

The VRX spec sheet says free field, while the PRX does not say how it was measured. Didn't notice that till now. Maybe that's it?

JBL should post how the PRX is measured.

You can add about 3db's to the VRX while its sitting on the floor.
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Chuck Simon

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Re: PRX618S-XLF vs. VRX918SP
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 12:48:11 pm »

Quote
Base/footprint: the VRX has a much larger foot print, which is stable when stacking speakers 6-8’ in the air.  The PRX has a base of 590 sq/in and the VRX measures at 693 sq/in.
Base/footprint: the VRX has a much larger foot print, which is stable when stacking speakers 6-8’ in the air.  The PRX has a base of 590 sq/in and the VRX measures at 693 sq/in.

I don't think I have ever seen "larger footprint" shown as an advantage before!  But you can lay the PRX on it's side if that is a concern.  I installed rubber feet on the sides of mine for stacking when overhead clearence is an issue. Because of the substantial difference in price, unless you are going to fly them, the PRX seems like the logical choice.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 12:53:44 pm by Chuck Simon »
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Scott Bolt

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Re: PRX618S-XLF vs. VRX918SP
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 04:21:18 pm »

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Doubling of power = +3db right?
No.

3db occurs at ln(2) or .693 times the original value to give you some kind of math to go with the number.

So I have always used the rule of thumb as follows:

3db change - noticeable difference from the original.

6db change - double the measured value of the original

10db change - is perceived by the user to be 2 times as loud as the original.

As for the relative volume of the PRX and VRX, I think it nearly impossible that the VRX would not have the same output as the PRX.  Conversely, although the amp module in the VRX is bigger, I seriously doubt most would hear a difference in maximum output.
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Mac Kerr

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dB vs Power and Voltage
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 04:34:38 pm »

No.

3db occurs at ln(2) or .693 times the original value to give you some kind of math to go with the number.

So I have always used the rule of thumb as follows:

3db change - noticeable difference from the original.

6db change - double the measured value of the original

10db change - is perceived by the user to be 2 times as loud as the original.

As for the relative volume of the PRX and VRX, I think it nearly impossible that the VRX would not have the same output as the PRX.  Conversely, although the amp module in the VRX is bigger, I seriously doubt most would hear a difference in maximum output.

It depends on what you are referring to. +3dB is not 2/3 of the original power. Scroll down to the middle of THIS PAGE to see a chart of ratios and factors vs dB both for voltage, and for power. A 2:1 ratio is a 3dB power difference, and a 6dB voltage difference. Your noticeable difference and perceived doubling references are correct as I know them.

Calculations of dB are also done with log(base 10) values, not ln values.

Mac
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 04:40:32 pm by Mac Kerr »
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Scott Bolt

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Re: dB vs Power and Voltage
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2013, 11:32:34 am »

It depends on what you are referring to. +3dB is not 2/3 of the original power. Scroll down to the middle of THIS PAGE to see a chart of ratios and factors vs dB both for voltage, and for power. A 2:1 ratio is a 3dB power difference, and a 6dB voltage difference. Your noticeable difference and perceived doubling references are correct as I know them.

Calculations of dB are also done with log(base 10) values, not ln values.

Mac

Got my radioactive decay half life and cut off frequency calculations mixed up ;)

So the 3db point is only important because the amp output voltage will drop by 1/2 at this point.  In other words, it really isn't an ear thing at all.

3db is a perceivable difference

10db is perceived as 2 times as loud.

All of this must be taken into a great context of how the measurement was made.

Even after you do this, just making lots of noise isn't necessarily a good thing.  The noise has to be pleasing!

Sadly, there are no standards or specs you can go to for a measurement of "good useable output".

Typically, what speakers like 2-way tops do is drop off of the LF driver when pushed.  The HF driver can almost always produce more SPL with less power and without burning out the driver.  This isn't a good thing and it sounds horrible.... but you can still ligitametly say your speaker is putting out 133db at 1 meter and not be lying.

Personally, I think an SPL reading with filters on a few bands would be more useful in determining how well a speaker works, but even this would not include distortion issues.

More expensive speakers tend to be able to put out pleasing sound at high SPL because they stay linear, and don't distort even when loud.  Less expensive speakers may be able to generate high SPL, but don't sound as good doing it.
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