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Author Topic: X32, Uli and service  (Read 5036 times)

dick rees

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 04:31:06 pm »

It takes a special product to give one that stercoraceous feeling.

Had to crack my thesaurus on that one.  You even fooled the Forum spell-check.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 05:05:09 pm by dick rees »
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Doug Fowler

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 04:31:52 pm »

I understand that not dropping the F-bomb on forum contributors (along with refraining from other forms of personal attacks) is good manners, but why should excreble products or shady manufactuers get a pass?  Or are corporations seen as "people" here, too?  /nudge, wink.

No pass for the above "entities", but I'm pretty sure I made the "f**k you" policy clear during the conversion boondoggle a couple of years ago. 

It's totally unnecessary.

;-)
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 04:48:57 pm »

Well if that is the case and it is accepted forum behavior, then I guess it is ok to say F**k you to anyone here and then back track a few months or years later and say "my feelings has changed" and all is well, interesting.

I didn't say his feeling have changed, they probably haven't (I know mine haven't). I said the facts changed, a different matter entirely. Dogmatically sticking with an old view after the facts on the ground have changed is not a sign of professionalism, or IQ. While I consider Bob to be both professional and smarter than the average bear.

That post pulled from the way back machine does not make him or us, look very good.

JR

PS: In the deep south we call that showing your a** in public,,, I wonder what they call it Boston?

PPS: Embarrassing your friends publicly does not actually make you look better by comparison. It makes us all look worse. Of course that language is unprofessional while the sentiment was not that uncommon.
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Mark Phillips

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 05:17:35 pm »


I agree with you for the most part Mr. Roberts, I also come from the school of "praise in public, reprimand in private" from my 23 years in the military and earlier. But I also believe that if you do "show your a** in public" don't be suprised if you get it handed back to you.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 05:59:13 pm »

I agree with you for the most part Mr. Roberts, I also come from the school of "praise in public, reprimand in private" from my 23 years in the military and earlier. But I also believe that if you do "show your a** in public" don't be suprised if you get it handed back to you.

This seems to be a matter of no good deed going unpunished as Bob appears to have been trying to take a kinder-gentler approach to his criticism, and gets sand-bagged by old comments he made before Uli engaged with the forums personally, and announced numerous corporate policy changes.

The larger lesson here is to never put something in writing that you wouldn't say in person face to face to an individual, or want your mother to read.  A good lesson for all of us.

I am constantly reminded of mistakes in my early writing, alas we can't go back and re-write history as much as some may want.

This seems much ado about nothing, not unlike the rest of the thread. Trying to change peoples behavior on the internet is like herding cats, but less fun.

JR
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 07:08:41 pm »

Amusing but not very gracious...

As much as this was an "ass being handed back to someone" situation, I was also expressing my distaste for how many people were piling on the Behringer-bashing just a short while ago - and now they're quite the fanboys. 

All it took was for a CEO to participate in a few forum threads on a website and all of a sudden it seems like the past never happened. 

I have tried to have a balanced view of Behringer since I first discovered them, and I still try to do the same.

Uli Behringer wrote me a lengthy answer to my business-, rather than audio-, related questions on soundforums.net, and as much as I'm grateful for him sharing his wizdom I pretty much feel like I used to about his company.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 07:46:19 pm »

As much as this was an "ass being handed back to someone" situation, I was also expressing my distaste for how many people were piling on the Behringer-bashing just a short while ago - and now they're quite the fanboys. 

All it took was for a CEO to participate in a few forum threads on a website and all of a sudden it seems like the past never happened. 

I have tried to have a balanced view of Behringer since I first discovered them, and I still try to do the same.

Uli Behringer wrote me a lengthy answer to my business-, rather than audio-, related questions on soundforums.net, and as much as I'm grateful for him sharing his wizdom I pretty much feel like I used to about his company.

Bingo.

The current public relations push doesn't do a thing for the pile of dead product from our club rigs that still occupies various nooks and crannies in our shop.  The DIs did find a use, though... we painted them black and use them as "angle adjusters" under monitors.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2013, 08:22:52 pm »

As much as this was an "ass being handed back to someone" situation, I was also expressing my distaste for how many people were piling on the Behringer-bashing just a short while ago - and now they're quite the fanboys. 
You are describing more than 95% of the population and this is more than human behavior, but basic barnyard behavior to pile on when someone appears weak.. Chickens will routinely peck a weak chicken to death... it is nature. 

Group think is more of a human affectation because chickens don't think, alone or in groups.
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All it took was for a CEO to participate in a few forum threads on a website and all of a sudden it seems like the past never happened. 
I find this even more irritating that you but I think there are more nuanced differences going on since Uli's charm offensive. I doubt Bob has turned into a new Behringer fan boy, but is moderating his past hyperbolic language in deference to "Behringer" the man, now a member of the forum, and another professional who deserves the curtesy of basic politeness, not matter what we feel about his past behaviors.   
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I have tried to have a balanced view of Behringer since I first discovered them, and I still try to do the same.
Me too... And for better or worse I know a little more than I am willing to discuss publicly from decades in the industry. My opinion is based on a few decades of observed behavior not one new product and promises of a different future.
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Uli Behringer wrote me a lengthy answer to my business-, rather than audio-, related questions on soundforums.net, and as much as I'm grateful for him sharing his wizdom I pretty much feel like I used to about his company.

I remain impressed with his communication skills but am not surprised since for his early years he also wrote all his own marketing and advertising copy. Chief executives are often persuasive salesmen too.

If I were him and undertaking a similar PR campaign I would personally reach out visible opinion leaders, and even assemble an email list to push spin at. I declined providing my email to one of his marketing guys (not that it is secret), and do not presume the personal(?) PMs from Uli were anything more than part of this larger campaign. 

JR

PS I would be careful about doing anything associated with Bob's a**.. He is a big boy and probably doesn't need to be schooled by anyone.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 08:45:11 pm »

PS I would be careful about doing anything associated with Bob's a**..

He's from Beantown.  All the better reason to remain up wind. :)
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Bob Leonard

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Re: X32, Uli and service
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 08:45:32 pm »

John,
In the Boston area we call it showing your ass also. Sometimes, when honesty and emotion become one and the same it can be difficult to express ones self in a polite manner. It's generally impossible to show expression on the web, hence the insertion of objectionable language for which many of us are guilty. I suppose the late George Carlin was headed in the right direction, but that was another day and another time.

In my posts I have been guilty of using the abbreviated form of fornication under carnal knowledge and have actually been making an attempt to not use that abbreviation for the benefit of all, myself included. That is not to say that I regret using the abbreviation in the past. What I may regret is that I let my anger get the best of me in those instances in which I would generally have much more self control.

I'll have to say I find it odd that someone would pull a post from years ago in order to strengthen their cause. I find it odd because what I put on paper won't change who I am, what I am, or the honesty of my statements regardless. However, opinions are like assholes (can I say that?), and everyone has one. Opinions do change as does life, every day that we live it, and in some cases minute to minute.

Let's also not confuse my appreciation for above average customer support with becoming a fanboy. What Uli did for the unfortunate soul and his X32 was above and beyond. I have never seen a board drop shipped based on a Youtube video, and for Uli to take that step shows his commitment to his cause and he and his crew should be commended as should anyone who shows that much initiative towards customer service.

I noticed a remark about opinions changing, praise in public, etc. Let me make one point crystal clear. What you won't get from me is praise or silence in an effort to be all things to all people.

What I say here is what I would say to your face. I won't pat you on the back for making the wrong choice. I'll be honest based on my education and experience, both of which are substantial. I will have little respect for a person who won't say to my face what should be said. If I'm wrong so be it, tell me so and let's move on. If I have offended you, tell me.
 
Let's also make this distinction. Just because some heated words were exchanged it doesn't mean a person dislikes you, is out to get you, is always wrong, or is holding a grudge. Those rules are for the playground, and I don't go there very often. There are many people on this board who have felt the sting, and there have been many times that I have felt their's. What I respect in those people, yourself included, is the honesty of the statements made to my face. Those people I will do anything for, as has been the case through the past and will be into the future.
 
My position with Behringer has not changed. I still feel that some of their products would be best used as door stops, and that very few of Uli's products are close to being ready for prime time. That doesn't mean I have to dislike everything Uli has done, or dislike all of the products Behringer has to offer, just the same as I don't like everything JBL has done or all of their products.
 
I won't change my opinions concerning his budget EQ, compressors, analog boards, amplifiers, etc., or will I change my opinion regarding previous support. What I will say is that his efforts to promote and support the X32 product line appear to have merit. It appears that Uli and crew have decided that his recent mergers leave him with a lot to lose, and that the X32 is his chance to show the world there can be change. I suspect that Uli and most manufacturers would rather hear the truth, and I would also suspect the truth can be gleaned from the web sites of the world in one form or another. I seem to remember a manufacturer whose first live sound mic had serious issues. I remember telling that man the truth as reported by many members of this board, and I'm glad I did.
 
And I do respect Uli the man.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 08:51:22 pm by Bob Leonard »
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